17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale

[daltonbottles]

I'll throw in my two cents here, and try to stay on topic. Onion bottles, Dutch, English, or otherwise, were once a fairly scarce collectible in the bottle kingdom. But with the onslaught of Essequibo material coming on the market in the past many years, Dutch onions in particular are VERY affordable to even the low-budget collector these days. If what you have is a simple, and relatively common, "plain old" Dutch Onion, and with the damage you are describing, you will be lucky to get 20 or 30 bucks. On the other hand, if the bottle is from the location and time period described, it could very possibly be an early shaft and globe, the forerunner to the true onion. Nice examples of THOSE could realistically bring 5000 to 10,000 dollars, with the key being "nice". Any damage is going to obviously affect the value. Then again, if you have a true BLUE onion of ANY origin, you have something truly special, and the associated damage could be a minimal concern. Willy Van den Bossche has a turquoise English onion shown in his book "Antique Glass Bottles" that is opaline glass, but it dates a couple of decades later than the wreck you mention. Still, a true blue onion is a rarity, as long as it is the GLASS that is blue, and not simply the patination.

As others have said, a picture is worth a thousand words of description. But even the best of pictures are not worth ten thousand dollars. Anyone even considering laying out that kind of cash will need to see your bottle "hands on"......... that is almost guaranteed.

Hope this is of some help.

 

[daltonbottles]

This early shaft and globe sold at Heckler Auctions earlier this year for something close to $6000. Very nice piece with a couple of body bruises as I recall.

 

[GuntherHess]

nice info there Dalton.
Do you know when the first applied seals were used on black glass?

 

[daltonbottles]

The earliest production of true "black glass" is thought to date to about 1630 in England, so that gives us a basis for the glass type. There are examples of sealed shaft and globe bottles, and that type generally dates from around 1630 to 1680 for the dark green to amber black glass, although there are earlier shaft and globes that date pre-black glass era. Christies sold one with a damaged seal in 1993 for $7778 that was estimated to date circa 1670, Bonahams had one listed in an auction last May that was estimated to date circa 1650-1660, and I have seen a very few others mentioned through the years, not being common by any means. I think its safe to say that the earliest sealed black glass bottles go back to or near the introduction of black glass itself. Van den Bossche also shows some nice examples in his book.

But as far as seals themselves go, there are some examples of ancient sealed glassware that dates back to the later B.C. to early A.D. period. This was not "black glass" of course. Any sealed black glass bottle of the shaft and globe, onion, mallet, early cylinder, or any of the transitionals dating pre-1800 are highly collectible, and of course the earlier they are, the more valuable, even moreso if the seal itself is dated within the range of the actual bottle production. But be aware that there are sealed bottles of later periods on later production bottles that pre-date the actual manufacturing date of the bottle. This is due to owners requesting specific dates on seals, such as memorial dates, birthdates, etc. There are also cases where the dating on a bottle seal may indicate the vintage of the contents rather than the actual manufacturing date of the bottle. The style of the bottle simply may or may not jive with the seal date, and that can be very misleading in trying to date a bottle type only on the basis of the date on a seal. I have seen sealed bottles manufactured in the later 1800s with contents or vintage dates back into the 1700s. This is akin to trying to date a bottle according to the patent date, often misleading and confusing, especially to new collectors.

 

[GuntherHess]

thanks , I was using the term "black glass" loosely to mean any of the iron colored glass.

I understand the problem with using seal dates. Its the same problem I see with people confusing patent and company establishment dates found on bottles.

Do you have any ribbon seal bottles in your collection? I find those interesting because they seem more difficult to apply to the bottle.

 

[GuntherHess]

https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-248601/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm#254620

do you have any thoughts on this seal Andy dug? Im not sure anything was ever resolved on it.

 

[daltonbottles]

I have a couple of Herring, Herrig, Hearing, etc. ribbon seals, one of the more common types.

Interesting sealed bottle you linked. My feeling is, from the pics, is that it's likely a circa 1770-1800 Continental wine, probably German from the combined lip finish, heavy open tube pontil, and name (as I read it) "HERSTIG", which I can only assume is a surname with M.W. being first two initials of the owner, bottler, or ? This is what I see.......