Cleo Cola

[SODAPOPBOB]

fishnuts ~

Keep up the good work. I know how perplexing it can be. In response to everything your "article" discussed, I have a brief comment to make. Lately I too believe there is a ...

... MAJOR CLUE to be found regarding what I call the "STRAIGHT-SIDED-Os"

?
Plant <SSO> Date
?

This is where my current research is focused ... but unfortunately I have too few bottles to make sense of it yet. If you have a ton of bottles to work with, I recommend you focus on the S.S.Os for awhile and see if you can come up with a date as to when the various transitions occurred.

Good luck. And thanks again for all your efforts. I for one appreciate it.

Sodapopbob

Quality ~ Fremont, Nebraska ~ Light Green ~ Deco-style ~ Non-Acl ~ 1931? or 1941?

3 <(I)> 1 (no dot)

{ I say 1931 ~ But I can't prove it }

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

This should help ...

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

P.S. ~

Regarding my Quality bottle ... it is also embossed with Coca Cola Bottling Co.

It may help to properly date it if I knew exactly when the C.C.B.C. set up operation in Fremont, Nebraska. If it was 1932 or later, then my Quality bottle is definitely a 1941. But if prior to 1932, then it "might" be a 1931. I have tried to determine when the C.C.B.C. started in Fremont, but have been unsuccessful coming up with a date. If you or anyone else knows, please let me know. Determining the date on this one bottle may help set a precedent for future research. If it is a 1931, it is the earliest Owens-Illinois soda bottle I have ever seen.

The so called mold number above the word FULL is a 1 (no dot)

Thanks.

Bob

 

[fishnuts]

Bob,
First, thanks for your kudos.
Now note that I have mentioned, to some extent, the squarish-with-rounded-corners aspect of the mid to late thirites Cleros as opposed to the more standard 'O' looking logo. I haven't logged that piece of info on every bottle in the data base, to my chagrin (as if may be a dating tool as well) but I can't do it all...I'm already have nine or ten fields of data for each bottle...

Next, I have a Freemont, NB bottle like yours and it is definately dated 1942. And I have several other bottles of that design 9nearly so or exactly) and there is no indicator on any of the bottles that they generate from the early thirties. Historicallty, they might as I haven't researched the bottling sites...yet.

Next, thanks for helping me get in touch with Bill Lockhart. His information has been valuable to me, as my insights have been helpful to him. In a nutshell we agree the dot is far more complicated, may not be a 'dater', plant to plant differences confuse, and his original monograph on the subject 'needs' to be ammended/revised. Research ongoing.

Lastly. You've made generalized statements in a thread from your examination of one bottle. One. I mean, one? I thought you were all about imperical evidence. As one who has spent over a year accumulating data and offering bits and snippets of my 'discoveries' when I see trends in that data (which you eschew)...well. I'm at a loss...but, how dare you?

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

fishnuts ~

I'm curious about the Fremont bottle you have and said is "like mine" and is "definitely" dated 1942.

I suspect it has a single digit 2 ... so what exactly are you basing your "definite" conclusion on? And exactly how do you know your bottle is not a 1932? I would really like to know, as it will aid not only myself, but other collectors as well who read this. And if possible, could we see a picture of the base on your Fremont bottle?

Thanks a million.

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

fishnuts ~

Arrrgh! The mold number on this bottle is a '5'! Now in a sample of only a half dozen bottles we have an eleven, an eight, a five and three ones. Until I see and log (with your help) all the numbers from one thru eleven (plus, who knows how many more) I presume O/I skip numbered (i.e. didn't use numbers in order...which we know they did on their plant identification, so it's not out of the question)) their mold designations.

~ * ~

Based on your statement above, I thought you might like to see this picture of the base on a "Texan" grapefruit bottle I have. It is marked as follows ...

G - 94
Duraglas
5 <(I)> 48
51.

So here we have a 51. (dot)

So if this doesn't confuse anyone about the one through eleven sequence, it sure does me. I realize this isn't a Cleo Cola bottle, but you still gotta wonder about the 51. How high do those bottom numbers go? Does anyone have one higher than 51? And what about the bottom numbers that have a letter with them? For example, I have a "Players" acl bottle dated 1952, and the bottom number is 1A. I wonder what the "A" represents? So Many questions and so few answers.

And what about the G - 94? I have a few "Clear Glass" Owens-Illinois bottles that also use the G. So I'm sure it can't stand for "Green." And, like Morb said, I agree it's likely a mold number of some kind. Which leads me to suspect that the G stands for "Glass." (With a question mark ?) I suppose it could mean "Gob" which is also a term used in bottle making. Gob refers to the glass in it's molten form.

Also note on this 1948 bottle that it still uses the Straight-Sided-O. So I'm throwing that theory out the window that the SSO was only used in the 1930s.

fishnuts ~

I hope you can see that I'm just trying to help here and not add more confusion to this subject. I too would eventually like to break the code on Owens-Illinois soda bottles. But if your efforts and those of others just bring us back to not knowing for certainty what the dots represent, then I'd say we are no better off than we were before. Suggesting the final answer may only exist in the Owens-Illinois valuts. Have you ever though of contacting them?

Thanks again.

And please continue your research ... you are probably the only person fully devoted to this. "Obi-wan, you are our last hope!"

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

fishnuts ~

I took the liberty of contacting Owens-Illinois myself through their main website. But rather than going into detail about my inquiry, I simply started out by asking if they had an individual or department who answers questions about the companies early history. I did explain I was aware of the endless amount of information available on the internet, but that I was hoping to communicate with one of their "experts" on the subject. Who knows what kind of reply I will receive. But I will let you know just as soon as I hear back from them.

If you haven't seen it yet, check out their new logo ...

Link: http://www.o-i.com/home.aspx

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

fishnuts ~

Check out this chart I found this morning. It has information I have never seen before. Especially ...

1. Digit(s) above logo represent ... Container "Style"
2. Digit(s) below logo represent ... Mold "Cavity" Number
3. Open/Closed "Dates"

I can't say for certain, but it seems like whoever put this chart together did their homework and knows something.

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Morb ~

You said ...

G76 and G113 are your mold numbers, or style numbers if you so choose, this indicates which molds will be used. The number to the left is indeed the plant that the bottles were made at. The number on the right is indeed the date. These were most likely made in sets, and the number under the the logo is the indication of which mold was used to make that particular bottle in sequence.

~ * ~

On behalf of the billions of people who have access to this forum, I wanted to acknowledge your comments above ... which jive with the chart I posted. If both you and the chart are correct, as I believe they are, then I consider it huge step towards eventually breaking the Owens-Illinois dating codes.

By the way ... What do you make of the chart's use of the term "cavity?" The person who compiled the chart could just as easily have said "mold number" without including the word cavity, and it still would have meant basically the same thing. But he didn't ... He specifically used the word cavity.

Thanks again for your input. I for one among billions appreciate it.

SPB

 

[morbious_fod]

A mold is basically a cavity into which the glass would have been injected, so I'm sure that we are discussing the difference between glass maker jargon and the non-glass making community's name for the same thing.

Interesting video on the glass making process, modern of course, but I'm guessing that the older ones were similar.

http://youtu.be/NVKcISj2LfA

Notice that when the inspector inspects the glass that he found to be flawed, he checks the bottom, most likely to see which mold in the sequence is defective.