COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY

[SODAPOPBOB]

What is it about the case pictured below that tells us whether it was made in 1906, 1926, or some other year?

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Partial answers to last question ...

Illinois Glass 1906 Catalog
http://www.sha.org/bottle/igco_1906.htm

1906 Cases
http://www.sha.org/bottle/Typing/IGCo1906/IGCo1906page266.jpg

Illinois Glass 1926 Catalog
http://www.sha.org/bottle/igco1926.htm

1926 Cases
http://www.sha.org/bottle/Typing/IGCo1926/page167.jpg



Now all we gotta do is figure out how to date the red case and we'll be in like Flint. They all look alike to me.

Please note I haven't forgotten the Boise, Idaho Coca Cola bottling plant was established in circa 1915, nor that it appears to have been repainted. But when it was "actually made" is still the $64.00 question.

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

So much for letting this thread fade into oblivion. But I just wanted to add these two additional post as reminders ...

[ 1 of 2 ]

ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB

This link pertains to both types of boxes for hutchinson bottles ... (Long distance and local)

http://www.hutchbook.com/Bottling%20Process%20Shipping%20Cases/Default.htm

[ Long distance example ]

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

[ 2 of 2 ]

"These two city delivery cases were advertised in the 1889 W. H. Hutchinson & Son Manufacturers and Dealers in Bottlers Supplies catalog"

ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB

[ Local examples ]

 

[celerycola]

Here's a typical bottling plant circa 1910. It is the plant of McDaniel Brothers of Fort Worth, Texas. They bottled cola, celery, birch beer, and a patent drink called Jersey Cream. The photo shows the entire bottling operation from the front to the rear doors. There are no Hutchinson bottles anywhere in the photo.

Below is a hand truck of empties brought in through the back door. Visible are the bottoms of the bottles upside down in the crates.

When the empties were brought into the plant they were loaded in the bottle washer. After they were clean they were packed again upside down to drain.

The crates of upside down clean bottles were moved to the filling area. A crate of clean empties was set on one side of the foot-powered filling machine and the filled bottles were placed right side up in a crate on the other side.

The filled bottles were packed right side up so the flavor would be visible on the cap when the crates were delivered to customers.

The reason for empty bottles to be packed upside down was so a bottler knew he was refunding deposit on his bottles and not those of a competitor. Bottles were the biggest expense and he couldn't afford to pay deposit on a competitors bottles he could not legally use.

Below are bottles from 1904 to about 1930 showing the bottler's identification on the bottom.

 

[epackage]

Dennis I must say, that is one great post you just made there concerning the bottles and the way they were handled and why, you're a wealth of knowledge and a great asset to this hobby. I'm proud to own a bottle that was once in your collection...

 

[fer_de_lance]

Cerery,
Nice post. I checked my examples of straight sided Coca-Colas (all of which are mid-body embossed) and as Bob pointed out the bottoms were just marked Coca-Cola. Does that mean Coca-Cola bottlers had to pull their empties out of the case to find which belonged to them or did they fill any bottle as long as it was marked Coca-Cola? I'm basing my question on my bottles, there my be other Coca-Cola bottlers that had their straight sided bottles with location embossed on bottom or base.Both perforated and an solid bottom boxes were available which brings up the question why buy one or the other? As this thread was originally a question about SBP's desired box or crate I apologize if my comments are off topic.I couldn't resist posting photo of my perforated bottom Lemo-Cola box when I saw your bottle.If you have information on Lemo I would be interested ,but it would probably be best addressed in another thread.

Best regards
Tim

 

[CreekWalker]

Hi, Bob, to date any national Coca-Cola product, I match the style of lettering , the slogan/motto and color/pattern or background layout with known Coke products in Petritti;(sic) guide. For a regional Coke product such as yours dating is much more problematic. The box manufactuer recieved an order from a local Coke bottler to build this type of crate to their specs, using possibly instructions less than the Norm for national Coca Cola crates at the time. My quess is post 1910 era, pre-1920. PS , Dennis , never would I have thought after 20 years and a hundred+ bottle digs, I would be unable to obtain another amber: RM Becker, My-Coca, Memphis, Ten, (tn or 10 oz?) marked straight side soda, after selling a damaged one to a Aussie collector in the 1990's!

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB



I acknowledge it is plausible that "one" of the reasons for the perforated holes in the bottoms of the crates was to insure that paper label bottles could be shipped upside down and not rub against one another. I also acknowledge "another" reason for the holes was to allow the bottles to be placed upside down when empty and drain properly. Not to mention various other explanations for the holes, including general shipping purposes and embossed base bottler identification.

Celery ~

I am including this quote of mine to reiterate my earlier comments regarding upside down bottles, which I acknowledge again as being available for a number of years and practiced for a variety of purposes.

I also acknowledge, appreciate, and thank you for the collage of wonderfully presented pictures, especially the vintage black & white one's, even though they don't necessarily illustrate exactly what I had in mind when I said ...

"Where are ... the pictures indicating that it was a common practice by bottlers?"

However, your pictures do support at least one aspect of the reason for placing bottles upside down. But it was actually the everyday use (shipping) of bottles, like in the last vintage photo showing the filled and ready to ship bottles in the upright position, that I was primarily referring to.

( I dread this next part because I feel by saying it I will be labeled an argumentative rebel whose only goal is to push an issue until a specifically desired answer is achieved. But because that is not the case, I will risk that possibility because I honestly feel the following observations and questions to be valid one's ).

Note: The following only pertains to the RED, lidded case from Boise, Idaho, and not any other types. I emphasize this because I feel it is easy to get side-tracked with discussions involving other types of boxes and cases.

Observations:

1. I believe it was originally a railroad or long distance shipping case.
2. I believe it was repainted and might be older than 1915 when the Boise facility was established.
3. I believe it might be old enough to have been used for Hutchinson bottles.
4. I believe it was intended to support bottles upside down and not upright.
5. I also believe it could have had a dual purpose for both Hutchinson as well as straight-sided bottles.
6. It looks almost identical to cases made between 1906 and 1926 and possibly earlier than that.
7. The McFerson & Foster Box Company was established in circa 1883-84.

Questions: (Which are not intended just for celerycola but for anyone )

Exactly what is it about the RED case from Boise, Idaho that tells us ...

1. When it was made?
2. Whether it was intended for Hutchinson bottles, straight-sided bottles, or both?

3. fe_de_lance's question about Coca Cola bottles in particular?

Please be specific in your answers.

Thanks a lot

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Creek Walker ~

Thanks again. Your intelligent observation is duley noted.

As to my overall observations, the truth is ...

I honestly don't know how old the red case from Boise is. Which is exactly why I started this thread in the first place, to determine beyound a shadow of a doubt within about five or ten years when it was made. For example, if I took it to Antiques Roadshow or showed it to a bona fide Coca Cola expert, I bet they would know. But since I don't own it, then that will never be possible. It's one thing to "believe / suspect" when something was made, but another thing when it comes to the facts.

Bob