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Cross & Co. Vancouver B.C. 1894-1963

SODABOB

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
1,380
0
P.S.

If necessary I can contact Bill Lockhart about this -- but before doing that I'd like to see if WE can figure it out on our own. I/WE might have found a bottle that doesn't fit in with the scheme of things as they currently stand. I also want to ask to have the opportunity to bid on the UK bottle before anyone else on this form does. Providing they ship to the U.S. and it doesn't cost a fortune. There are currently no bids on the bottle that ends this coming Tuesday. I hope to hear from the seller before then about the shipping -- and will let y'all know just as soon as I know.

Thanks

Bob
 

SODABOB

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
1,380
0
P.S. ~ P.S.

The only date I can glean from everything presented so far is that the UK Schweppes bottle is Pre 1937. What say you?
 

SODABOB

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
1,380
0
I didn't go back and see if I already posted these, but if I did they now take on a new relevance in connection with the UK eBay bottle

London, England ~ 1937

Schweppes_The_Observer_London_England_Sun__Sep_12__1937 (1).jpg


Schweppes_The_Observer_London_England_Sun__Sep_12__1937 (2).jpg
 

SODABOB

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
1,380
0
For the time being I'm going to leave-off with this. If newspaper ads are reflective of the types of bottles they used when the ads were published, then the same or similar bottle was being used in England at least as early as 1933, and possibly earlier. Which is early enough for me to take an entirely new interest in the UK eBay bottle. If everything falls in place and the seller ships to the U.S. without charging a fortune for shipping, I'm going to bid on it and see what happens. If I win it I will figure out how to date it later. And maybe even find a paper label for it one of these days.

London, England ~ 1933

You can even see SCHWEPPES on the heel

Schweppes Ginger Ale_The_Guardian_London England_Wed__Aug_30__1933 (1).jpg

Schweppes Ginger Ale_The_Guardian_London England_Wed__Aug_30__1933 (2).jpg
 

SODABOB

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
1,380
0
I just heard from the UK eBay seller and he said he can ship the bottle to California where I live for about $15 U.S. -- Still no bids yet so I'm going to place one later and see what happens.
 

SODABOB

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
1,380
0
Cc

Thanks. The bottle ends tomorrow and I will let you know how it goes. The seller's name is Wendi and we have exchanged a few emails. She is going to look around and see if she can find one of the white/script labels. I won't include everything I have found here, but I have been researching J L & Co. / J Lumb and Company to see if I can make sense of the numbers on bases of their bottles. The only thing I came up with is that certain bottles have certain numbers, which I would call "style" numbers. They are definitely not dates despite that some of them look like dates. I was kind of hoping that the 34 on the 234L16 bottle I'm bidding on might be for 1934. But that doesn't seem likely now that I have researched the mark a little more. The thing that strikes me the oddest is that I have only been able to find a couple of examples like the bottle I intend to bid on. Because its origin is England it was probably never exported, unless it was but then returned to England. But regardless of that, you'd think there would be jillions of them. That's the main reason I'm interested in the bottle. Its apparent rarity.

For a future reference I am attaching the best pictures I have been able to find of the J L & Co. LDC mark. And will take some pics of the Schweppes bottle if I win it.

Later

Bob

JL & Co Base.jpg

JL & Co Schweppes Conical Bottle Base.jpg
 

SODABOB

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
1,380
0
P.S.

I meant to include this in my last post but forgot. Its pretty much self explanatory and addresses the return bottles aspect. Its dated 1895 and indicates that Schweppes was involved in the practice early on. Which isn't all that surprising because this was a common practice between American and/or Canadian glass makers and bottlers as well. But it also indicates that bottlers we reimbursed for returning the bottles and apparently didn't have to absorb that cost. This ties in with what the Schweppes book talked about. However, if the bottlers were reimbursed, then I have to wonder why it was a problem in the first place. Of course it might have been an entirely different can of worms when it came to overseas shipping. So many questions and so few answers. By the way, I checked and the distance between Coleford and Bristol, England, where the receipt was mailed form, is about thirty miles.


View attachment 191322

Schweppes Bottle Return Receipt 1895 Back.jpg
 

SODABOB

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
1,380
0
I'm either losing my marbles or else there was a switcheroo with the UK bottle. I don't recall a "make offer" when I first found it. But one was there when I looked at it again yesterday. So I made an offer and they accepted it. The total with shipping was $21 U.S. The only kicker is that it might take several weeks to get here. I think its literally being shipped on a ship. But that's okay because its reminiscent of how it was done back in the day. I will report back when it arrives. I want to thank Canadacan for allowing me to hijack his thread (again) and hope my contributions have been helpful. This phase of the discussion involved the possible infringement of the label in question, and it appears to me that Cross's did in deed "copycat" the label. However, because the only part of the Schweppes label that was protected by a trademarks was the fountain, no infringement appears to have occurred. It also appears that once Schweppes started setting up franchises in Canada and the United States they introduced an entirely different label for those markets. Speaking of which, the next thing I'm going to look into is to see if the new labels and the franchises correlate at about the same time. The label I'm speaking of is like the one attached here. Pre franchise or post franchise?

Thanks again,

Bob

Schweppes The_Vancouver_Sun_Vancouver_B.C._Canada_Tue__May_17__1955 (1).jpg
 

Canadacan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2014
1,426
36
British Columbia
Bob excellent news on aquiring the bottle! It's been an interesting ride here for sure and your contributions are most welcomed! I know of a couple fellas the do bottle digging in our region, I'll have to run it past them to see if they've ever dug up any of those Schweppes bottles! I concur with your statement about this 'Copycat' label. :)
 

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