English or American?

[Oldtimer]

PATENT

 

[cowseatmaize]

It looks like a TPM Rickett patent to me. It could I suppose go either way but more likely England.
That's my opinion.

 

[earlyglasscollector]

It's German, Not an English Ricketts, they usually come in smaller sizes and have that classic wide bodied serif caps to the patent. They don't have base embossing. I think they are later than Ricketts as well, but still nice and everyone should have one who's into 3pms. Actually I cannot remember a large size before so worthwhile just for that.
egc

 

[cowseatmaize]

Thank you Mark, it's great having your opinion. I'd like to ask another one of I may.
Why would the German bottles not adapt the mold or process to German? Also, could this form but smaller have been used for the early Hoff's? I like Johann Hoff and I'm curious.
Thanks for chiming in. Eric

 

[earlyglasscollector]

Hello Eric, I guess we could say that the germans did essentially copy the 3pm idea (the idea being as much in the way the mold operated/hinged/opened as the actual 3 part mold and presumably had their own "patent" specs produced. these have always looked a little later though say 1850's plus. I have always felt that the smaller examples were for german strong bodied beers etc (copying the English Porter usage), so it makes sense that the Johann Hoffs which were a "strength giving" malt extract drink were likely seen to have similar qualities to the porters and strong beers and therefore used the same bottles as the strong beers. Not sure when Johann started? 1847 wasn't it? so that would tie in perfectly with the Patent bottles. Patent is the same word in German of course.
.....actually you've made me think now....it could actually be that these German patent bottles were SOLELY for Hoffs product...from the number I see, and the number of later Hoff embossed bottles which are quite numerous, this could easily be the case. We will have to await coming across a labelled patent bottle....
Interesting
egc

 

[cowseatmaize]

and the number of later Hoff embossed bottles which are quite numerous

Here in the states they are numerous as well but the BERLIN embossed are fairly scarce here. I have 2, one is shoulder embossed and the other is front embossed. Both are 2 piece BIM. I would guess these are common over there.
Are you aware of a 3PM over there? I'd love to see if not acquire one.
Thank you

 

[cowseatmaize]

Not sure when Johann started? 1847 wasn't it?

I need to look up a little more myself but I think that sounds about right. The actual packaging and marketing was probably a bit later.

 

[AntiqueMeds]

I had a one of these with a German Johann Hoff label.

 

[RED Matthews]

Hello to this thread. I have spent a lot of years studying the evolution of Case Gin Bottles. I have a good representative collection. One of the things that happened in Europe while they were being produced [ in the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium and England; plus the later production in France. The evolution of the 3-part mold happened to them to regulate the capacity for taxation of the Gin from these exported European countries. I even had a friend in the Netherlands, that went to Belgium and got out two mold mechanisms to take pictures of them for me. They were foot operated molds for the shaping of the shoulders and the necks in the mold. A lot of them still had the applied finishes on them; from pig snouts to the long straight tapered finishes.

I have some Hoff's bottles up north. I will have to get them out next summer as reevaluate the mold assemblies used.
Interesting thread, Thanks. RED Matthews

 

[earlyglasscollector]

All the german patent bottles I've seen including the two I presently have in stock are definite 3 piece molds. Wasn't actually aware they come in 2pm! My two have different lips.
regards
Mark egc