Help with Hobbleskirt ID

[SODABOB]

P.S.

Check out these ROOT soda bottles currently on eBay. Based on everything I know about the Root Glass Company, they started dating their bottle in 1909 and continued to date them until 1932 when they were fully absorbed by the Owens Illinois Glass Company. Notice that one of the eBay bottles is dated with a 16 for 1916. Even though I do not know the answer, you have to wonder why there are no (currently known) patent 1915 hobble-skirts with Root 16 on them. In other words, why would they date jillions of other soda bottles but not the 1916 hobble-skirts? Remember, there are numerous claims that state Root was supposed to be the only bottle manufacturer to have produced the first-issue hobble-skirts in 1917. If that is true, then I think we might be missing something about the 1916 hobble-skirts, but I'm not sure what we might be missing.

Hobbleskirts

1923 Root 31 (This would have been one of the last Root hobble-skirts - and a good one for someone to buy if interested)
1923 COCA COLA COKE BOTTLE Williamsport, PA ROOT GLASS CO. 1931 Very Nice 8/10 | eBay

Straight Side

Root 15
1910-20's Vintage 6 1/2 Fl oz Coca-Cola, ROOT Straight Side Jacksonville, FLA 17 | eBay

Root 14
XX RARE Sealed Coca-Cola Straight Side Script ROOT Owensboro KY Aqua Bottle | eBay

Root 22
UNLISTED RARE Root 22 Coca-Cola Bottle? Rube Ullrich LEWISTOWN (make offer) | eBay

DH Maker - Davenport Iowa Root 16 - 2134
D H Baker Davenport Iowa Bottle Mug Base 7 oz 2134 Root 16 Crown Top | eBay

Bob (I own a Root 17 hobble-skirt that is clearly marked)

 

[graybeal]

1923 Root 31 (This would have been one of the last Root hobble-skirts - and a good one for someone to buy if interested)
1923 COCA COLA COKE BOTTLE Williamsport, PA ROOT GLASS CO. 1931 Very Nice 8/10 | eBay

I have a ROOT bottle from 1930 (New Bern, NC) that has the Nov. 16, 1915 patent. Has to be the newest bottle with that Patent date.

 

[SODABOB]

Thanks, graybeal

One of the strange things about the later Root Coca Cola bottles is that they renewed their patent in 1922-23 and yet they continued making the patent 1915 hobble-skirts into the 1930s. Part of this can be attributed to the fact that the 1922-23 patent bottles were not first produced until 1928, but even with that said Root kept plugging along with the 1915 patent bottles. One of the reasons for the delay between 1923 and 1928 is that there were so many (millions) of the 1915 patents still in use that it took most of the bottles several years to transition from one bottle type to the other. I have never searched for a Root Coca Cola bottle with the December 25, 1923 patent date on it, but I will look around and see if I can find one.

Here are the original patents again ...

Root 1915
1499085706825155700-D0048160 (storage.googleapis.com)

Root 1922-23
1498395901835055942-D0063657 (storage.googleapis.com)

Bob

 

[SODABOB]

Yep, Root made some of the patent December 25, 1923 Coca Cola bottles. And because there is one there are probably jillions of them. The seller doesn't give an exact date, so I'm not sure when it was made - but likely between 1928 and 1932. Strange! Why would Root make the 1915s and the 1923s during the same time period?

Dec 25 1923 Coca Cola Christmas Bottle Houston Mississippi MS ROOT | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Dec 25 1923 Coca Cola Christmas Bottle Houston Mississippi MS ROOT at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Bob

 

[SODABOB]

graybeal

Are you absolutely certain that your Root Coca Cola bottle has Nov. 16, 1915 AND a 30 on it? If possible, could you please share some photos with us?

I forgot that this one I posted the other day was a Root 1923 / 31

1923 COCA COLA COKE BOTTLE Williamsport, PA ROOT GLASS CO. 1931 Very Nice 8/10 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1923 COCA COLA COKE BOTTLE Williamsport, PA ROOT GLASS CO. 1931 Very Nice 8/10 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Thanks

Bob

 

[SODABOB]

Even though I don't want to overdo the 1916 Root Coca Cola bottles, I wanted to share one more to firmly establish that Root did indeed date some of their straight-side bottles with a 16 - which makes me wonder why I can't find a hobble-skirt with a 16 on it.

Greensboro, North Carolina

The attached ad from 1919 matches the bottle. I don't know when the Coca Cola bottling Co. in Greensboro adopted the hobble-skirt - but likely after 1919.

Bob

 

[graybeal]

graybeal

Are you absolutely certain that your Root Coca Cola bottle has Nov. 16, 1915 AND a 30 on it? If possible, could you please share some photos with us?

I forgot that this one I posted the other day was a Root 1923 / 31

1923 COCA COLA COKE BOTTLE Williamsport, PA ROOT GLASS CO. 1931 Very Nice 8/10 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1923 COCA COLA COKE BOTTLE Williamsport, PA ROOT GLASS CO. 1931 Very Nice 8/10 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Thanks

Bob

I am certain. I have some pics, but the "30" is cutoff beside ROOT, so I'm going to retake that and I'll upload a few pics in an hour or so. My oldest Hobbleskirt is a 1918 with No Town by Graham Glass Co. (prior to Owens) with 576ER on the heel.

 

[graybeal]

Are you absolutely certain that your Root Coca Cola bottle has Nov. 16, 1915 AND a 30 on it? If possible, could you please share some photos with us?

Here are some pics. I bought it for the Patent Date. I remember being really surprised by the date and was happy it was a ROOT bottle. Always like adding ROOT bottles. It's a very dark green color as well and seems heavier than usual.

 

[SODABOB]

Thanks, graybeal

Great photos and clearly ROOT 30. I honestly don't know what to make of it - especially considering that Root also made some patent 1923 bottles during the same time period such as the Root 31 that's on eBay. The only thing I can think of that might explain it is that Root may have used an older mold that they added (engraved) the 30 to. That sort of thing is not entirely unheard of and not as uncommon as one might think. I have seen dozens of bottles, especially those made by Owens Illinois where the lettering and dates have been altered in a variety of ways. Of course, I can't say for certain what took place with your bottle, other than it is most unique and a true keeper. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to find another one like it. (Mission Impossible). This recording will self-destruct in five seconds. (Lol)

Thanks, again - super bottle!

Bob

 

[SODABOB]

As we know, this discussion started out with Ivy's bottle that we all agreed is marked with 576 EP - and assumed the P stood for 1916 because of some earlier studies that we considered to be accurate. We also agreed that the mark was attributed to the Graham Glass Co. And then we discovered the claims stating that only the Root Glass Co. made the first hobble-skirts. The best example of that claim is the September 19, 1916 Evansville, Indiana newspaper article I posted earlier that used the words "Root Glass" and "Trial" bottle. We should also be reminded that Root Glass was located in Terre Haute, Indiana and Graham Glass was located in Evansville, Indiana. I suppose the question could be asked as to why Root Glass made the first hobble-skirts and not Graham Glass that was in Evansville where the trial bottles were distributed in 1916. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an answer to that question based on what we currently know. That is, unless Root Glass was indeed the only factory to make the first hobble-skirts. Please note that I am not drawing any definitive conclusions and only emphasizing what our current understanding is. Nor do I speak for anyone else who might have a different opinion and/or more reliable facts. All things considered, I am leaning towards the possibility that the bottles referred to in the 1916 ads may indeed have been made by Root and dated with a 17 in anticipation of a national campaign that was intended to be launched in the spring of 1917. Even though I can't say for certain that's what took place with the early hobble-skirts, I do know that some bottle makers produced bottles in advance and that just because a certain bottle has a specific date on it doesn't mean it was distributed to a bottler that same year. In other words, it could be there are no hobble-skirts with a 1916 date and that the earliest of the earliest are all dated with Root 17. During the course of this discussion, I have spent dozens of hours looking for a definite 1916 hobble-skirt and haven't been able to find a single one. In fact, I'm giving up the search for a 1916 hobble-skirt and will now be focusing entirely on the Root Glass Co. and see if I can find an explanation related to them. One thing I already discovered pertains to a devasting fire at the Root Glass plant in December of 1916 that may have curtailed production and allowed other bottle makers to pick up the slack for the 1917 season. I will be back after I look into that a little closer.

In the meantime, check out the patent 1915 hobble-skirts in my collection. I titled them as follows (Left to Right)

1. Root 17 - Dark Green - Scranton. Pa.
2. Ice blue - Not marked with a maker, date or city/state
3. Graham Glass - 576 G20 (1920) - Medium Green - Wilkesboro, N.C.
4. Southern Glass Co. - Vernon California - Circle S base - Late teens early 1920s - Grayish Glass - No city/state

Later Alligators!

Bob