PLEASE HELP! NOT A WAR TIME 7UP?

[digger mcdirt]

RE: Latest WAR TIME 7UP Bottle find!!!

I have a mint solid white one that came out of a old trunk it has no fade never was red as I said mint. It is dated 1946 on bottom. So it missed the war by 1 year. It is from Jackson Tenn.

 

[bamascavenger]

RE: Latest WAR TIME 7UP Bottle find!!!

NOTE: In answer to bgchief's question as to the date of the Flint bottle, It has a 3 for La. Plant, the owens symbol and 0 and a 1 below. Therefore, based on all i have read, this bottle would date 1940. Predating the WAR! Cannot be 1930 because as you know ACL did not come out until later, 1935? So, I got burned. not much money, but i think i have caused quite a problem and quite a bit of a good question now!
Wow! Did I open up a can of worms. Lol. Like i said early on, I AM NOT SLINGING MUD, NOR RUNNING ANYONES NAME IN THE MUD. Please do not misunderstand me. I bought a bottle and apparently bought the wrong one. CHIEF, The bottle you are displaying, if you will look it shows an outline where the red use to be as mine does too! My bottle IS before WAR time years as the embossing and 8 bubbles stopped in 1940 or 41? The company wanted the bubbles to go inline with the name? Here below is part of a letter i got from BOTTLEMAN57 He says other bottlers did leave out the Red Pig such as RC and DOUBLE cola. He says 7UP kept the Red. My opinon now, If other companies took out the red for the war effort then i am pretty sure, The 7UP Company probably followed suit. Anyway, Thank you all for your input, advise time and trouble. This is VERY Interesting and I must state for the record that I have MORE faith in BILL LOCKHART than i do BOTTLEMAN!!! Here is BOTTLEMAN'S Letter;
"I just told you what I think about the bottles, like you said, I have seen the RC Bottles with the red missing and showing the yellow only and I have seen a lot of Double Cola leaving just the white outline and even on the Orange Crush rib bottles white outline no orange. The red seems not to hold up at all, I have seem some that don't show any prove of an outline at all where the orange would have been. More so during the war times era. I have no documented information but I have read in a book that they took some of the pigment out of the color, you could just wipe it off with your hand if it was ever buried for any link of time, leaving the white outline in perfect condition. I just don't think no bottling plant made a white outline in the 7 up." "BOTTLEMAN57"

 

[TX Big Chief]

RE: Latest WAR TIME 7UP Bottle find!!!

Bama I don't think you got burned or bought the wrong bottle.You got a
8 bubble 7UP and raised some very interesting questions that turned into a very
informative thread.I certainly learned a lot and expect to learn more before it is done.
Now my opinion of the outline that does also show up quite well on the bottle
I posted.I think if you used the same equipment you would use to print two colors and only printed with one color this outline might show up on the bottle.I think that outline is on all 7UP bottles under the red layer which overlays on the white layer and is added after the white layer.I work in a printing plant and each station adds a layer of a different color until the finished product has the right shades of each color.If you start with white and add nothing else there will be an outline where the other colors are supposed to be.Just my opinion,but I still think the red was never
applied to these bottles.

 

[madman]

RE: Latest WAR TIME 7UP Bottle find!!!

wow ! some great info here! hey terry it is true the red paint doesnt hold up specialy in the ground, ive dug dozens of the embossed neck 7ups just to watch the paint flake off before my eyes, thats a cool bottle! nice early acl, hmm is it possible to professionally repaint the red? anyway if ya look at it in the light youll see the ghosting, if it was painted red?if not cool bottle either way mike

 

[morbious_fod]

RE: Latest WAR TIME 7UP Bottle find!!!

It's possible that it has something to do with the process of applying acls, but I personally would like a bit more proof that this is the case. I'm not going to sit here and tell anyone to believe or not to believe in the white label only bottles, I am just questioning the explanation of this phenomenon. Not to belittle anyone or discredit anyone, but if we just become closed minded that this is the only possibility without looking at all possibilities or theories then the truth will never be discovered.

Sorry Sodafizz, all due respect for you and your accomplishments, but you seemed to be disturbed that someone dared to question yourself or Bill Lockhart, and that struck me as really defensive and a bit closed minded. A scholar and researcher always questions his or her theories, and doen't explode when someone else questions them. Wise is the person who is flexible enough to listen to the theories of others, without dismissing their questions or ideas out of hand, no matter what their experience or degrees.

 

[bamascavenger]

RE: Latest WAR TIME 7UP Bottle find!!!

Thank you madman for your encouraging remarks! I truly appreciate it!
Now for my EPIC!
Kathy,
Bill and I have shared many emails together on this subject. I have shared with him BOTTLEMAN57'S views and I asked Bill to speak directly with BOTTLEMAN57. Bill is investigating the issue for me. I hope that you do not feel that i was trying to give Bill a bad name. It sure sounded like it in your post. Saying, And i quote, " I am embarrased for Bill and apologize for him." Why would you even make a statement like that. I was not questioning his AUTHORITY. Just merely asking questions as to some better validity to the white 7ups. In the articles of SODAFIZZ it showed no documentation that supported facts that all 7ups were white during those times. If you do not ask a question, then you do not ever know the answer. Not all of us out here are fortunate to be EXPERTS.
You seem to have been trying to make me out to be some kind of fool and i take offense to that. I am just a collector, trying to buy or trade for items i do not have and i wish to have a accurate complete 7up one. As I have a very good start on my Coca cola's and Pepsi's. I too want the 7ups that way. I am sorry that i do not have the "expertise" that you keep throwing out there. We all know who you are where you started etc... I will humbly apologize to you and Bill if that will make you happy! Sorry if you feel that i was stepping on toes. I sure hit a sore spot with you that was very evident in your "epic" Please try not to be so Insouciant next time to us pee ons. My Best and regards to you and yours. Terry G. Vickers Retired LTC. US Army.
P.S. Sending my $25 dollars for a subscription to SODAFIZZ as i have done, does this make a person a member of the PSBCA? Also, when is the next issue due out?

 

[bamascavenger]

DIGGER....PLEASE POST A PICTURE OF YOUR MINT BOTTLE FOR ALL OF US TO SEE AND ENVY!!!

 

[thesodafizz]

Oh god, I was afraid I'd make it worse, and that's just what I did.

My reply was not defensive - it was simply intended to answer the first post where it said that he did not know me or Bill. So, I attempted an introduction that appeared to be taken as an offensive tirade. Definitely not my intention, nor do I think of myself as an expert at anything other than messing things up sometimes. I do that quite well, enough so to qualify me as an expert (that and what I call my "blonde moments," something I seemed to be having last night quite well)...

Second, I am not closed minded to anything. I stated clearly that mistakes are identified and made public by printing them in the magazine because I want things to be accurate.. And, in my feeble attempt at a post, I was trying to say I wanted to dig up the answers and share them in the Soda Fizz, so everyone can know (many of my readers do not use computers and have only the Fizz to read). It seems it came out as something else entirely.

Nor did I mean to make anyone feel like a fool. But I will admit bottleman is not one of my favorite sellers because, and anyone who knows me personally knows this, it is a pet peeve of mine for someone to put the wrong lids and soda in the bottles just because they think they'll sell for more. I think I may have gotten a bottle or two from him in the past - and always asked him to open the bottle, pour out the soda and just send the bottle empty - because I don't want to pay for something unnecessarily.

Also, re: sellers descriptions - all I look for is if it says where the bottle is from, bottling company info from the back or bottom of the bottle, size, and all that. I could care less where they claim it came from. And I, like probably about everyone, have been burned, more so in the beginning than now, but still - it happens. It's one of the biggest reasons I started doing the Fizz.

Third, if you notice the time of the "epic" - it was 3 or 4 am.....after a long day of chasing a 2-year-old and trying to get some work done in the process of the day. Hubby was gone all last week giving seminars in Canada for his company and I was flying solo with a hyperactive preschooler that got even more hyper the day his daddy returned and he had a week's attention to catch up on. Hilarious if you were here, but tiring. Also, any of you who have met me in person might have realized I am a bit "blunt." I try to keep a grip on it, because I know I come across that way without meaning to (and if you think I am blunt, you ought to meet my hubby). I say what I think and sort it all out later, and sometimes it doesn't come out the way I want it to. And I really need to stop sending emails and making posts at 4 am......I am clearly not at my best for anything like that.

If you even meet me in person - you'll realize what I mean relatively easily - and also just as easily, realize I don't mean it the way it comes out. Words on a computer screen lack emotion and expression - and that's where the real meaning can be cleared up.

The second post after the "epic" was an attempt to soften that bluntness. Apparently it was also unsucessful.

I too have been in the loop over this from Bill. So, I wasn't surprised to find out about it being here - I already knew. He has already sent a comment to include in the next Fizz in regards to it. And yes, I apologize to him - because I drug him into this by posting links to his articles. I feel a bit guilty for that, because he's done a lot for me and I feel I put him in the line of fire because of it by trying to be helpful. But, also because I know Bill, I feel like he welcomes the questioning because it opens up an opportunity to research deeper. He'll handle it in his usual flair for digging up whatever it needs be to answer the questions raised. And yes, my first reaction was "He'll never write for me again." But I know better.

So, I will go back to what I do better (magazine layout) than making wee hour posts and leave this to the ones who do it best and keep my big fat fingers quiet.

Also, to answer your question about the next magazine. After the printer took almost a month to print it, I labeled and stamped it in one day. The post office that told me they'd give me a break on postage, so I could afford to send the larger size suddenly won't take it now without the additional postage. As soon as I can catch the older guy (who has been off until tomorrow - Tuesday) who said he'd take them, it has been ready to mail for days. It will be mailed tomorrow (Tuesday), even if I am forced to pay the surcharge. Some of them were mailed Saturday(envelopes with more than one issue and stuff like that). Before the next issue, I will set up a bulk mailing permit and be done with it. It will cost me $300, but it's easier than having to play tag with the one guy at the PO that will accept them with postage I can live with.

 

[thesodafizz]

.I think if you used the same equipment you would use to print two colors and only printed with one color this outline might show up on the bottle.I think that outline is on all 7UP bottles under the red layer which overlays on the white layer and is added after the white layer.I work in a printing plant and each station adds a layer of a different color until the finished product has the right shades of each color.If you start with white and add nothing else there will be an outline where the other colors are supposed to be.Just my opinion,but I still think the red was never
applied to these bottles.

This is something we can add to our list of growing info from someone that works in printing. I did not know about the layers and outlines for the other colors, (I know the magazine prints color as a four-color process, like a laser printer has four cartridges, but wondered how it worked.) So, this may explain why an outline would be there for an otherwise missing color. That's why I agreed with him that I didn't think the ones I have ever had red either.

It will be interesting to see, after all the data is in, what more we find out.

Thanks,
K

 

[Trying not to break it]

hi everyone, i find this thread very interesting on dating acl's. i have dug several try me acl's, they are embossed on the base B 9, according to the balt. bottle book, this mark is from buck glass co. balt.. they dated there bottles. with a 1 or 2 digit #. single digits where from the 20's, after that they went to a 2 digit code for the 30's ect. on a lot of these bottles the very edge of the paint on the bottles looks fraid (sp). your thoughts on when acl's started appreciated. thanks rhona