PLEASE HELP! NOT A WAR TIME 7UP?

[T D]

just read your's Big Chief from Tejas, and no you're not pouring gas on the fire, just giving us all more info...love all this painted stuff...........

 

[thesodafizz]

Ah - just what I was looking for - a bottle (any bottle, Seven-Up or otherwise) that had the red partway there, in the process of wearing off. At least this is tangible, real evidence.
Thank you for posting the photo. I had never seen one - now I can say differently (thank gawd).

 

[acls]

I am a 7up collector so here goes my 2 cents. I have seen many of the bubble girl labeled bottles with only a white ACL. I have no doubt in my mind that a lot of these all white ACL 7ups originally had orange paint on the label too. For some reason the orange paint on these bottles can completely disentegrate while the white paint remains perfect. I have seen many examples where only a few tiny flecks of orange were left. There are lots of 7up/ACL collectors who believe that a white only label was never made. This has been a topic of discussion for many years.

On the flip side many companies scaled back to only one color during the WWII. Some KIST, RC, and Mission bottles have single color ACLs during the war. It is definitely possible that 7up did this too. I have seen a mint condition white ACL 7up Bubble Girl Amber Squat from Nashville, TN that showed no outline or any other signs of ever having orange paint. I passed on purchasing this particular bottle because at the time every 7up collector I had spoken to said there were no true white only ACL bottles. In hindsight I believe that bottle never had orange and was originally made with only the white paint.

So anyway, my two cents is that I believe a lot of the all white ACL 7ups originally had orange paint. I also believe that it is very probable that 7up produced white only ACLs during the war years...............

 

[acls]

This link shows a green glass bubble girl with the orange paint deteriorating.......
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=799415&ppid=1122&image=135331074&images=135331074,135331026,135331037,135331045,135331054,135331058,135331065,135331018&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

Pic of amber squat with paint deteriorating.....

 

[T D]

it's after midnight, this may be me showing my rear end because it really has nothing to do with anything, but here is a 1937 Cleo Cola, the glass is almost perfect, the red is very good, and the white is coming off. Go figure and go to bed...at least me anyway.

 

[thesodafizz]

Ok. Good to see the posts coming. As I said before, I never saw a Seven-Up with half of the red missing - which didn't mean there wasn't one, just that I hadn't seen one. Now, there's a post of a photo of one - so I consider that validated info, with photographic proof (as Charlie Harris would say).

Forgot to mentioin - the Soda Fizz made it thru the post office without having to pay the surcharge today. So, they'll be trickling in to you who are members. Next issue, I hope to have to the printer by early next month. Now how long he takes to print this one, we'll see. So, there'll be another one coming soon. Thanks for everyone's patience.

Now, another tidbit of info. In going thru the current issue, I noticed something I had forgotten until now (I've slept since I did these pages). Member Chris Weide contributed photos of three Seven-Up bottles not in Bill Lockhart's article. There are photos of the front and back of the bottles, with descrptions in Chris's comments about the differences of each one. So, add three to whatever total that Bill had in his original articles.

But what caught my attention was this: three different glass companies. One was from Owens-Illinois (1938), another from Glenshaw Glass (1935) and the last one from Armstrong Cork Co., (1968). Armstrong Cork Co.?

Check out the photos in the Fizz when you get it and then go see if any of yours have those subtle differences Chris describes. After everyone has a chance to get their issue, and read it, if you'd like - for those of you who do not subscribe, I can post a link to Chris's photos and comment so everyone can see.

K

 

[capsoda]

The orange on the older 7UP bottles seems to wear off pretty quick under the right conditions. There was only one change in the 7UP label from the first issue until the 1970s and that was the amount of bubbles on the label. The first year there were eight bubbles on the label over the bubble up girl and eight under the 7. The second year it was changed to seven bubbles and stayed that way until the letter only label came out. Your bottle hade the orange on it at one time.

 

[bamascavenger]

Caps is correct if he is talking about ACLS post. ACLS... The AMBER SQUATS were only made from 1935 to 1938??or 1939 Except the other day i did see one that had a Large 4 with a smaller 4 just above it, dating it to 1944? Looked like the small 4 was added on afterwards. Not sure where this bottle would stand? Bill. Kathy? So anyway, This type along with my 1940 Green bottle was an Orange shield ACL. Most all amber squats were orange acl's with the exception of the ones that had labels. The Bottles in question are the GREEN WWII ones. If you found a Amber squat with no red orange and only white, Pre war....Then i would say it lost its red for some reason, Probably from being buried and dug up, Cleaned by a tumbler Etc. Or it was dated past 1940 as for the one i stated above, which would put another twist on the original article in the FIZZ on bottle dates. Would a bottler keep using these squats beyond 1940 and add a smaller number as stated in the article to determine if bottles were 1930 or 1940? We already know to date ACL'S because they came in to play in 1935. But the dating numbers especially on the amber squat I seen does not seem to fit the picture. If they used these during the war and changed the dates then is there really a WHITE only Amber Squat out there? If so, Then I need that one too! HaHa! The questions and mystery continues. Hope i made sense.
Kathy, I guess i do owe you an apology, I usually do not come off so gruff! Maybe men go through menopause too? LOL. I will be man enough and pony up an apology. I am very sorry if i hurt your feelings or think i doubted your knowledge that was certainly not my intention. Sincerely, Terry.
Great to be back on track again! P.S. After reading posts' again. I must say that the bottles linked and shown are also showing the white is missing or fading too. The bottles I have in question are PERFECT white letters, lines with NO fading and the ORANGE is gone. This is the Bottle in question is it not? It is the one I have been asking about, Just to clear up any misunderstandings. Will you have any pics in the FIZZ on these Kathy or later perhaps? Anyone care to show the all whites they have for all to see? Thanks!!

 

[thesodafizz]

No apology necessary. My intention was just to introduce who Bill was (and a bit about me), stress that I would print whatever new info that gets dug up so everyone would know and in my longwinded epic, gave too much (unnessary) info and it got all misconstrued to something else. I realized the next day that I just needed to have kept it simple, like the re-edited post, and it would be less for me to get messed up. I have said many times, I know what I am trying to say and think everyone else does too. It's the fun of being blonde - I can blame it on my hair....

From the email I got from Bill, he is planning on working this out and make a future article of it for the Fizz. Hopefully, he'll be able to get that done soon, especially since it's summer, altho he has classes during the summer too, I think - he still has less load than during regular school semesters. But as soon as he does, I'll put the info in the Fizz, as well as post it here.

Who would have thought there'd be so many different bottles for one major brand? But it's like the Orange Crush ones - my gawd, Mike Rosman (who has chronicled this extensively) has zillions of them - and all are different in some way. I have a blueprint (probably called something else in bottle lingo, but for lack of anything else to refer to it as) for a Coke bottle (one of the later patents), and it is SO specific. Each slight thing is measured in exactness down to the nth degree. But of course, Coke is just like that with everything they do (like when their attorneys went after me for being "CokeGirl."). So, I guess, from all the differences, either Seven-Up left "loopholes" that a glassmaker could run with, or they weren't as specific - or they kept changing the gameplan. But, it makes it interesting for us to try and figure out.

I also have copies of proof sets for the ACL labels. Each is "painted" with the color (on some kind of card stock) and has the bottler, date, mold # (which has helped explain those crazy numbers on some bottle's bottoms), etc. Some of them will have comments penciled on them, like white - ok (or approved), red-reject (or whatever color they have rejected in how they worded it). There's no comments as to why certain ones have not been approved, so I wonder about that.

Now, another note. There is one major collector, who is basically considered as a "reliable" source of information. He has, since day one I met him, sworn as gospel that they didn't use red during the war time. To be honest, I have never found any proof, other than some bottles missing red that normally had it, to validate this. No one from a bottling plant or bottle manufacturer has stated so. But I have never pursued it either. I guess it's really past time to clear this up as rumor, or fact.

My idea - and here's where some of you (as well as my readers) will have to help me because I am lacking the necessary tools. I have a few copies of the National Bottler and American Bottler & Carbonation, as well as a company magazine or two. From these few, I know they have about everything imaginable to "educate" the bottlers - which is a bit boring as a read for the average person (collector or otherwise), because it's all about equipment, sales and all that (I get them for the ads - and a few articles - because the ads help date things too). It could be that if any of you have copies dated during the war years, you could take a few minutes and look thru it to see if it has anything re: what to do about the red paint, rumored to be needed for the war effort (everything else is in there - so this could be too). It also seems to me that if the red paint was indeed "rationed" during those years, we'd not have cars painted red during that time, and other things.....(so if we can't find bottle information, perhaps we can validate it thru another source for red paint) Dennis (CeleryCola), if you read this - is there anything you've come across in your boxes of data that relate to this subject?

Just as Bill Lockhart debunked the "myth" that you could date a bottle by it's mold seams up the side, I'd like to either validate this rumor about red paint, or settle for all time that it's just a myth too.

I truly appreciate all the posts showing fading red paint. That, in itself, has validated that it does happen. (Which had puzzled me before, how could the white remain but the red go.)

K

 

[acls]

Bama- I included the information about the amber 7ups to let you know that there is a simialr problem with the amber squats too.