Possibly one of the earliest John Ryan bottles?

[AntiqueMeds]

just something to consider,
If at some point you are convinced 100% that this is a fake could you do something to ensure this bottle doesnt continue to float around the collector community? I'm not implying that you would resale it but these things have a way of getting back into the market place when collections are disposed of. They are like landmines waiting for someone else to step on them. You might consider permanently marking it on the back with an engraver or something.

I think you can write off losses like this on your taxes if you are able to itemize.

 

[edndlm]

I left a message for the guy who made my personalized cure bottle but doubt he made it because every one he ever made had crazy embossing with the person's own name on it except for one local stout bottle . He did such an awesome job on that a 40 year plus well known collector offered $ 2500.00 for it ! Eventually he told the redfaced collector it was a fake & gave it to him ! I was hoping The John Ryan was real but slugplate ; lettering ; etching : depth didn't look kosher to me & I didn't want to insult or panic anyone !

 

[AntiqueMeds]

I did find some references to codd bottles modified with Flojet machines. These are what we use at work. They use an abrasive in a water jet and they will cut metal, glass, or virtually anything. They could definately cut a panel like that in a bottle.

 

[bottlekid76]

I too think that would be the right thing to do Matt.

I want to post some more photos so maybe you can see it better. I really thank you guys for the input. It would have never (and didn't) cross my mind that it wouldn't be genuine.

 

[bottlekid76]

That's ok edndlm, I appreciate everything everyone has said. I for sure wanted to know more about it, and I got that! If indeed, you would think it would possibly be costly or time consuming to do so. With all the trouble, it's odd for it to end up in a yard sale too...

It's an interesting discussion, and if fake indeed, I promise it wont get out on the market. Not without being marked. One that would be a great show and tell to unaware pontiled soda collectors as myself. No one will take a loss again on it, that is for sure.

All the best,
Tim

 

[Plumbata]

Looking at it again, I highly doubt it is the product of a CNC-esque milling machine or laser cutter, but can't say for sure because I haven't seen anything else like this produced by the devices baltbottles mentioned. It looks hand-done using dremel type tools and the high-speed miniature jackhammer things that professional preparers of rocks use to chip matrix from fossils, and maybe a sandblaster, followed by a tumbling. The upward pointing arm of the "N" in "JOHN" is skewed though, which is peculiar.

Looking at the letters you can see how they are placed crookedly, as if they were adhesive mailbox letter stickers that the forger stuck on there and then cut around. The bottle could have also shifted while being machine-milled but it has the rough, forged-by-hand look to me. I think a computer guided machine would do a more uniform job.

If it wasn't made by a CNC-type machine then it stands to reason that it was created many years ago and the fellow you got it from bought it when and where he claimed he did without knowing it was a fake. I would find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have figured it out after 20 years though, especially if he is an advanced collector. I collect local stuff and have never owned an IP soda, and it was immediately obvious to me that it was not real. You would think the seller would have figured it out. Maybe that is why he was willing to sell it at a price you were willing to pay.

 

[AntiqueMeds]

just for comparison here is a typical early slug plate chris uploaded in an previous post...

A difference to me is the way the letters are formed , they appear carved out of the glass on the Ryan where on this one they seem more molded from a cut slug plate.

 

[Plumbata]

I guess it depends what you paid for it. If he sold it for 50 or 100 bucks you can be certain he knew it was a fake and was just trying to unload it. The John Ryan bottles are pretty well known even to to me so he would certainly know that such a bottle would be worth more than that. Were it assumed to be real then as a long-time collector that fellow would have known a decent price to charge and the higher price could point to innocent ignorance, but on the other hand he could just be a soulless scammer. I don't want you to divulge what you paid, it is just something to think about.

 

[bottlekid76]

Here's this one to help compare....

 

[cyberdigger]

We'd all love to know! If I were you, however, I'd keep the forum in suspense for a while.. []