VALUES ... guides vs e-bay vs dealers vs ?

[SODAPOPBOB]

It is my opinion that values of soda bottles is a significant aspect to collecting. For example; Who wouldn't get excited and purchase a Mountain Dew party jug if they found one for sale with a price tag on it for $50.00? I would! Especially because I know they typically sell on e-bay and elsewhere for $1000.00 or more! And yet my acl book doesn't list a single Moutain Dew bottle whatsoever. And the guide I have is considered to be the best of the best. It has been said many times, and I agree, that the value of something (soda bottles and/or just about anything) is for the most part based on whatever the market will bare or what some collector is willing to pay for it. I also know that guides are just that ... "guides" ... meaning a general guideline with "ball-park" values. So where does that leave us when attempting to determine the "true value" of a particular bottle in our collections? For me the answer lies, for the most part, on first hand experience. Take for example the Big Chief acl shown below. This is from my personal collection and is from the small town of Ely, Nevada. (By the way; it is in near mint condition, and dated 1956). I have seen this same exact bottle (town and date) sell on e-bay numerous times anywhere from $35.00 to $135.00. So what is it's true value? My acl guidebook list one from Placerville, California (1951) that sold sometime between 1995/97 for $80.00. So then is this the true value? And does it truly make a difference which small town it's from? You bet it does!

So let's take a closer look at one that is currently on e-bay. It is the same bottle, but from Taft, California. Which is small town of approximately 6000 residents. (Ely, Nevada has currenty has about 4000 residents). The e-bay Taft bottle currently has 12 bids, with $39.00 as the current high bid. It closes today at appx. 4M Pacific time. Here's the link to check it out and watch for yourselves.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dllViewItem&item=280559432340&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Note: I accidently hit the wrong key, so I will continue this on the next page. Please stand by. Thanks.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Sorry about that. Something happened to cause it to post before I was ready. But that's okay, because I'm almost done here anyway.

So my point is this ... How do we determine the true value of a particular soda pop bottle if e-bay prices and personal opinions are scattered across the board like so much dust in the wind? And why even have price "guides" if they are outdated the minute you buy them? And what about "Dealer" pricing? I bought my Big Chief in an antique shop for $15.00

Bottom line? What is my Ely, Nevada Big Chief bottle really worth?

SODAPOPBOB

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

The e-bay link I posted doesn't work so I will try it again. I knew something was wrong when it automatically posted. My apologies again. I tested this one and it works. But personally I see no difference between the two links. ???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250693868478&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Final thoughts / questions ...

Let's say I wanted to trade or sell my Big Chief bottle to a A-B.net member. How would we ever agree on a value? Is it worth $35.00 or $135.00 ???

Thanks,

SPBOB

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

I got to thinking, and just so there is no misunderstanding, I wish to point out that my Big Chief bottle is not the subject of a trade or sell with any A-B.net member. Nor is it currently for sale on e-bay or elsewhere. It is one of my personal favorites and I have no intention of selling/trading it anytime in the foreseeable future.

So if you have comments to post, please feel free to do so as it will have absouletely no influence on anything going on at present. I simply use it as an example of a bottle in my collection that I have been trying to determine the true value of for quite some time now.

Thanks again,

SPBOB

 

[morbious_fod]

That's the age old question, and has no answer due to it's vagueness and reliance upon the whims of both the seller and the buyer. The seller could decide that the price he's asking is "what it books for and thus what its worth" regardless the economic times, actual availability (someone could have just found twenty of the exact same bottle and has started selling them), perceived availability (the seller himself has only seen one themselves and thinks its uber rare thus worth a mint). Then there is presumed rarity which I deal with a lot mainly due to the fact that my area has very few outlets for bottles to show up in and when they do the sellers decide they are worth a bunch of money, and since the buyers usually haven't seen them that often as well and are willing to pay the premium. All the while one person could have a crate of them in their basement and have no idea how to offer them to the collecting world, or even realize that the bottles are worth anything.

Then there is the "It's a small town so naturally they are rare." perception that you noted. A couple of examples in my area may help with this one. The small town of Tazewell, VA had the Sun Rise Bottling Company located there, technically it is North Tazewell, VA but the towns combined three years after the company closed. People in this area automatically assume that any bottle from this town is Uber-Rare, and will charge higher prices for them, never mind that the bottling plant existed for well over fifty years and had a large distribution area which included a lot of the area where there are almost know outlets for these bottles save word of mouth, and maybe a small flea market. No antique malls, one junk shop, and very little else. There are collectors of the company in the area; however, even with my four years of research I've only scared up one, who I need to try to meet sometime. My point is that while there are high priced bottles from this company namely the Tazewell Orange, with is one of the highest desired ones and usually runs around $100 in mint shape, and the Rooster Sun Rise bottles, there are some that I once thought were rare only to find out that they are more common than some of the national brands, and these are the Rhythm Punch bottles. The company closed down in 1960 and had ordered several grosses of these bottles dated 1960. These ended up on the market and in the area where they don't show up as much they can sell for upwards of $15, but go to Sevierville or the local bottle shows and you can expect to pick one up for $5.

Another good example is the Nesbitt-Double Cola Bottling Company of Falls Mills, VA. Falls Mills, VA is the poster child of a "hole in the road town" there really isn't a town as such, but more a small community which grew up around a flour mill. The bottling company moved from nearby Pocahontas, Va to Falls Mills, VA in the late 1940's. If Falls Mills has a thousand people living there I'd be shocked. The company distributed throughout the Virginia and West Virginia coal fields which are the same area as Sun Rise did, and the same situation applies, no outlets for people to bring in bottles. The only real good outlet closed about two years ago in Bluefield, I got several interesting bottles from this source and miss it greatly. Yet again we have a company with several fairly tough bottles to find, namely the Pocahontas Beverages line which features a Native American on the bottle; however, this same bottle came in a 16oz size from 1965-1981, and these bottles are everywhere. I have picked up nine variations of this bottle for $1 each, and this source still has about thirty or forty of them sitting there.

So don't be fooled by the "only 4000 people live there so it must be rare" justification. The distribution areas for most of these small bottlers would surprise you, and not all of the bottles from that town are necessarily uber-rare.

A bottle, or anything really, is only worth as much as the buyer is willing to pay. The Seller can ask as much as he wants, but in the end it doesn't matter if you don't sell it. There are a lot of bottles sitting in antique shops right now that someone thinks is worth the price they have on them, but they still sit.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

I promise, this will be my last comment at the moment ... (I think - I hope) []

Hey Morb ~ In the middle of posting this I saw yours. I will read it now. Thanks.

Some of you may recall that about a month ago I mentioned in one of my threads I was considering the possible liquidation of my entire collection except for certain western themed acls like my Big Chief's and various others. Well, I have been working on that very thing now for awhile. And even though I thought I knew what I had and what they were worth, the more I look into it on e-bay and price guides, the more uncertain I have become. It's weird, because I want to associate a value of the Big Chief referred to here at about $75.00, but now I don't know for sure what to think. Not to mention the 100-plus other bottles I'm trying to price out. I think the main challenge here involves "region." A certain bottle in one part of the country is worth more than it would be in another region. So this brings me right back to where I started this in the first place. How in the heck do you determine a true value of any bottle? Maybe you can't, and I'm beating my head against the wall for nothing!

What do you think?

SPBOB

 

[morbious_fod]

Speaking of perceived rarity, I own one of the rarest bottles that I have come across from the Sun Rise Bottling Company, and shock of shocks its a Canada Dry Ginger Ale from 1955. I have never laid eyes on another one, and I found mine in a bunch of them from Bristol, Tenn. and picked it up for twenty five cents. I've been looking for more ever since with no luck. Is there fifty crates just sitting somewhere? I dunno, but for know I own the only one that I know about, but there could always be more owned by those Tazewell collectors. That's why perceived rarity is so dangerous, you never know what has yet to surface. This is also why I never get into prices or even rarity of the bottles on my website. I learned that lesson a while back, I once thought the 7oz Blue Ridge Ginger Ale acl was very rare, and traded a good bottle for one that wasn't in great shape, only to have four of them show up at the Grey Tn. bottle show for five bucks each. Just because you haven't seen a ton of them doesn't mean its rare.

 

[morbious_fod]

Simple answer is to price it for what you think its worth. If it doesn't sell then start lowering the price till it does.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

ORIGINAL: morbious_fod

Simple answer is to price it for what you think its worth. If it doesn't sell then start lowering the price till it does.

Morb ~

Thanks a million. I agree with you 100% ... especially the part quoted here. But there is no way I am going to piece-out 100+ bottles! (I just don't have the time or inclination). And the likelyhood of someone buying/trading all of them at one whack seems slim to nil as well. So I guess I may be stuck with them at present whether I like it or not. But we will see what develops.

In the meantime, what is your opinion on price guides? Why all the fuss over these guides if all they have is a bunch of cool photos, but can't be relied on for values? Again, I know some of the guides are simply examples of what someone "thinks" a bottle is worth, while others are examples of bottles that sold at some point in time for a particular price. But, seriously, why even publish them? One says my Big Chief is rare, and another has it as dirt common. Personally, I think e-bay is a deterrent to true values ... at least from a buyer's viewpoint. But, then again, that's just my opinion.

Thanks again,

Bob