Archaeologists catch looter !! haha please

[Mike O]

How important of an area could it have been, It used to be an adult bookstore! I guess there could have been some great vintage porn in there []

 

[glass man]

I ENJOYED THE PART WHERE "ARTIFACTS WERE LITERALLY SPILLING OUT OF THE GROUND",WHAT A VISION! WOW AN ARTISIAN #HIT HOLE WELL WITH BOTTLES JUST BUBBLING OUT OF THE GROUND!! []

 

[baltbottles]

Here is what I think:

1. Experienced privy diggers will find about %90 of the bottles and artifacts on any given site. An archaeologist will find %20, if that. After the archaeologists are done, the rest is destroyed by the equipment.

2. No experienced privy digger digs for profit. If a digger were to sell all his finds, it would hardly cover the money and time invested.

3. Experienced privy diggers do respect historical properties with potentially anomalous features such privies of: Chinese, Native American, historic political figures, or other unique individuals. We respect these special sites and think they do deserve to be excavated by archaeologists and their reports published. Any digger who does not respect these sensitive sites is out of line, and does not represent privy diggers as whole.

4. The time period of most privies (1850-1900) on the west coast of America is a period which has much written history. Archaeologists are not going to 'discover' much or rewrite history. We already know how they lived, what they ate. With the exception of minority groups (Chinese, slaves, ect.) we know it already. The privies we dig belong to ‘average Joes’ who had average jobs, consumed average products, and lived average lives. Enough ‘average Joe’ privies have been excavated over the years to construct their living histories. Instead of targeting these ‘average Joes’ archaeologists efforts would be far more productive targeting pre-historic features.

5. I find it very suspicious that the bottles archaeologist dig up (at least here in CA) seem to disappear. Occasionally one will see little displays with bottles that were excavated before a building was put in, but the majority of the bottle put in the display are DAMAGED and WORTHLESS. Where do the valuable whiskey and bitters bottles go ????????? It is impossible that the archaeologist do not find these valuable bottles. The fact is that they DO find the incredibly valuable bottles, but instead of showing them off to the public, they disappear into the archaeologists’s private collection or even worse the archaeologists sell them through different distribution channels. I would call this dishonest behavior looting, wouldn’t you ??? Furthermore, what is the point of having these bottles cataloged and put in storage for nobody to enjoy, admire, and learn from. How is that productive ???? IT’S NOT. Archaeologists may not be aware of this, but us privy diggers contribute several of our finds to local historical societies and even occasionally give speeches to various historical alliances. We privy diggers spread the knowledge gleaned from our excavations. Archaeologists do not.

ORIGINAL: caldigs

Here is what I think:

1. Experienced privy diggers will find about %90 of the bottles and artifacts on any given site. An archaeologist will find %20, if that. After the archaeologists are done, the rest is destroyed by the equipment.

2. No experienced privy digger digs for profit. If a digger were to sell all his finds, it would hardly cover the money and time invested.

3. Experienced privy diggers do respect historical properties with potentially anomalous features such privies of: Chinese, Native American, historic political figures, or other unique individuals. We respect these special sites and think they do deserve to be excavated by archaeologists and their reports published. Any digger who does not respect these sensitive sites is out of line, and does not represent privy diggers as whole.

4. The time period of most privies (1850-1900) on the west coast of America is a period which has much written history. Archaeologists are not going to 'discover' much or rewrite history. We already know how they lived, what they ate. With the exception of minority groups (Chinese, slaves, ect.) we know it already. The privies we dig belong to ‘average Joes’ who had average jobs, consumed average products, and lived average lives. Enough ‘average Joe’ privies have been excavated over the years to construct their living histories. Instead of targeting these ‘average Joes’ archaeologists efforts would be far more productive targeting pre-historic features.

5. I find it very suspicious that the bottles archaeologist dig up (at least here in CA) seem to disappear. Occasionally one will see little displays with bottles that were excavated before a building was put in, but the majority of the bottle put in the display are DAMAGED and WORTHLESS. Where do the valuable whiskey and bitters bottles go ????????? It is impossible that the archaeologist do not find these valuable bottles. The fact is that they DO find the incredibly valuable bottles, but instead of showing them off to the public, they disappear into the archaeologists’s private collection or even worse the archaeologists sell them through different distribution channels. I would call this dishonest behavior looting, wouldn’t you ??? Furthermore, what is the point of having these bottles cataloged and put in storage for nobody to enjoy, admire, and learn from. How is that productive ???? IT’S NOT. Archaeologists may not be aware of this, but us privy diggers contribute several of our finds to local historical societies and even occasionally give speeches to various historical alliances. We privy diggers spread the knowledge gleaned from our excavations. Archaeologists do not.

I would agree with you on number 1 because privy diggers and archaeologists dig a site for a different reason. Privy diggers go to find artifacts and the focuse on wher they are highly concentrated. Archaeologists dig a site to do a historical survey. They dig over the entire site so they can map building foundations. they look at how the grade of the land has been changed over time by building up or being cut down. they locate and map important features such as fence and building post holes, dranage trenches, privies, and wells. this is why they only find 20 percent o fthe bottles they simply are not looking for them.

I would disagree with number 2 beacuse i know more then one experinced digger that simply digs to sell. For them its about making extra money.

As for 3 if the sites going to be destroyed I'd dig it. May places don't do archaeology because they can't afford to pay for it. But if the sites not threatened I wouldn't mess with it.

Number 4 I agree with completely. I've dug enough privies to know that you find alot of the same items. and you don't need to dig too many to get a good demographic sample.

As for 5 I will say I've heard stories of archaeologists destroying valuable bottles so they couldn't be had by collectors. I know a few Archaeologists that have nice private collections. And was once told that how may does a museum actually need and a broken one is often more interesing for a display then an intact example. So basically everything found does not always get reported.

Chris

 

[Jim]

I agree 100% that Oregon's law is overreaching, unconstitutional and easy to abuse. However, the guy made a mistake by digging a site that he had been denied permission to dig. If he had permission from the landowner, the police and the landowner would likely have been on his side, and told the "spoilers" to get lost, as THEY did not have permission to be there.

While some states may be able to pass such BS laws like Oregon's, there are many where it simply will not happen. Here in PA, a number of our Governor's "big government" proposals (none pertaining to our hobby) have been killed by our state Senate. I have also dealt with archaeologists from the PHMC, which is PA's official state archaeology department. I must say, the ones I have dealt with, including the chief archaeologist, are good people. They do their job, they care about preserving our history, as do I, but they also respect what I do and have never tried to infringe upon my pursuit of this great hobby. They were actually quite pleased when I told them how I do my digs and documentation, and even wished me good luck on future digs. ~Jim

 

[appliedlips]

ORIGINAL: Jim

I agree 100% that Oregon's law is overreaching, unconstitutional and easy to abuse. However, the guy made a mistake by digging a site that he had been denied permission to dig. If he had permission from the landowner, the police and the landowner would likely have been on his side, and told the "spoilers" to get lost, as THEY did not have permission to be there.

While some states may be able to pass such BS laws like Oregon's, there are many where it simply will not happen. Here in PA, a number of our Governor's "big government" proposals (none pertaining to our hobby) have been killed by our state Senate. I have also dealt with archaeologists from the PHMC, which is PA's official state archaeology department. I must say, the ones I have dealt with, including the chief archaeologist, are good people. They do their job, they care about preserving our history, as do I, but they also respect what I do and have never tried to infringe upon my pursuit of this great hobby. They were actually quite pleased when I told them how I do my digs and documentation, and even wished me good luck on future digs. ~Jim

Jim,don't be so sure that it can't happen where you live.Indiana is one of the most conservative states out there but I have been made aware that legislation is currently underway to make digging any pre 1870 site,including privies illegal.

As far as the archies in this story are concerned.I think we should all fill up their email box and voice mail with our opinions.Some of the dumbest crap I have ever read.They didn't have any interest until somebody else was getting something.Losers!

 

[appliedlips]

ORIGINAL: Penn Digger

Jerks, go hug a tree.



PD

I will vote for any poliltical candidate that makes this their slogan!

 

[Jim]

Any state legislature, city council, or any other government that would pass such crap should stop and think about a few things. 1- They are not going to stop most excavations on private property with landowner permission. Many (myself included) would simply ignore their draconian nonsense and continue doing what we do. There are not enough state-sponsored, taxpayer-leeching knuckleheads to patrol every small town and large city looking for "looters".

2- What they WOULD succeed in doing is p*ssing off non-professional historians like me, and a number of good things would be halted, including- Public displays/ educational exhibits within communities by people who actually know and appreciate the local history of their area; donations of items to local historical societies (something I do a lot of), newspaper/magazine articles that share historical information with the community, and more. If greedy statists and bad-apple archies want to play nasty, so will I. My collections, dig journals and a lot of good historical information will be stashed away, and will not see the light of day until after I'm dead and gone and they are willed to my historical society. Consequently, a lot of people would miss out, as I'm only 27 and hope to be around for a few more decades.

To those who push this crap, I ask one thing: Who would be causing a disservice to the historical record then??

 

[tigue710]

the whole thing is scary to me, there gonna wrap things up so tight someday your going to need a permit to take a dump and then another to flush it!

Funny how those dumb broads, who must live locally, walked past the site everyday and never thought anything of it until the got jealous of some free lance digger who got to just go in and dig! I bet those Chinese artifacts, (broken English porcelain) are still there if they want them!

Man I feel sorry for you west coasters, I hope I'm not feeling sorry for myself soon! Na probably not, its the liberals who F*** things up, were all to tight out here to care... I hope...

 

[bottlebadger]

Reread the last 3 sentences or so. I work for County government here is Wisconsin so I see it all the time. Paraphrasing its says" We think there might be something of value (historical or otherwise), but the inefficient way we enforce laws (with one hand not knowing what the other is doing) and have no incentive of significance to compel the landowner or demolition contractor to care, everything will hauled to a dump where it will be lost for good." The landowner is ticked- not because some dirty bottle burglar went behind his back but now his project will be shut down until he pays to have some archy firm dig up all the items of "great historical value". That being said, digging on land you were told not to or not asking at all should not be done. These stories only make all diggers in eyes of the public seem like sneaky unsavory types skulking around looking for items of great historical value to steal. Sorry- I'm getting off the soap box now.

 

[pyshodoodle]

sewer

???????????????

For more than four hours after confronting the man, the two women stood guard over the open pit -- which is about 3 feet deep and 10 feet across -- to make sure no more artifacts, which were literally spilling out of the ground, were removed.

Archaeologist - Just stand guard? Not go home and get the shovel???

Whatever... at least the looter saved "clearly important artifacts" from immenent distruction.