IN SEARCH OF / NON-ABM / FANCY-IMAGE / CROWN SODA BOTTLES

[SODAPOPBOB]

This might be a case of my not having looked around enough, but after numerous hours of searching the Internet I can't find a confirmed example of a Pictorial / Fancy soda bottle that ...

1. Is not a Hutchinson bottle.
2. Is not a blob-top bottle.
3. Has a Crown Closure.
4. Was hand blown in a mold.
5. Was not made by an automatic bottle machine (Pre-ABM).

Thus I am seeking help to find examples of circa 1900 to circa 1910 Non-ABM Crown soda bottles that do have ...

1. Fancy embossing (diamond-cut, etc) like the later (1920s) deco/designer bottles.
2. An embossed pictorial image like some of the earlier Hutch's.

Because many of the earlier Hutchinson bottles have images of eagles - trains - etc embossed on them, and were hand blown in molds, we know the ability to carve a mold with those types of images was possible, not to mention the even older pictorial/historical flasks.

So my primary questions are ...

1. Was it just a trend in that fancy/pictorial Crown / Non-ABM soda bottles were not popular between about 1900 and 1910 and as a consequence simply weren't made?

Or ...

2. They were popular and abundant but I have just failed to find any?

Unfortunately, most eBay sellers and the like probably don't know the difference between a ABM soda bottle and a Non-ABM soda bottle, and many of those that think they do know often get it wrong. In fact, I'm not always 100% sure myself. So for the sake of simplicity, and in the majority of cases, I would describe a ABM soda bottle as one whose mold seam runs the entire length of the bottle, including up and over the lip. Of course, some ABM bottles were also "tooled," which would smooth out the upper portion of the seam, but I think that particular feature is somewhat less likely on a true ABM soda bottle. On Non-ABM soda bottles the seam would typically stop near the shoulder.

Anyhoo, if you have an example of the type of soda bottle I am searching for, please share a picture of it with us and tell us something about it, especially if it has a makers mark and/or a date code. And please, let's be as specific as we can and focus on soda bottles you are about 99% certain are Non-ABM Crown's that are either fancy or have an image embossed on them. Typically speaking, automatic bottle machines were, for the most part, introduced and became in popular use "around" 1910.

I will continue to search myself and will let you know if/when I find anything. My current observation is that pictorial/fancy soda bottles just weren't popular in the late 1800s / early 1900s and explains why I can't find the examples I am looking for.

And yes, I confess I might be searching for the impossible again, but I guess that's what makes me tick. (Lol)

Thanks a lot.

Sodapopbob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

P.S. ~

Everything I have been seeing so far (Non-ABM) is either embossed with words only, but is plain and not fancy, and do not have embossed images.

Bob

 

[Bass Assassin]

Nice thread, should be interesting.

 

[celerycola]

Bob, you need to get out to a bottle show or maybe buy a book or two. Most of this information will not show up in a google search. I saw several at Manchester over the weekend picturing animals such as eagles, indians, a pig, etc.

Where I am from there were three companies using eagles, a camel, an elephant, a deer, and several with Indian heads, all before 1910 and hand finished from a single county.

As far as pre-abm deco bottles gay-ola adopted a bottle design patented in 1914 in many cities. Bludwine used a hobble skirt bottle across the US as early as 1906 but that bottle was not design patented until 1918. One of the most elaborate deco sodas I have ever seen is the Kola-Mint with raised and sunken panels, horizontal rings, and the script trade mark embossed on high relief mint leaves. Every one is hand finished.

If you want sources check the Alabama Soda Book, the Oklahoma Soda Book, the Kansas Soda Book, the Arkansas Soda Book, the Illinois soda book, the Oregon Soda Book, the Washington Soda Book, and others.

 

[OsiaBoyce]

ORIGINAL: celerycola

Bob, you need to get out to a bottle show or maybe buy a book or two. Most of this information will not show up in a google search. I saw several at Manchester over the weekend picturing animals such as eagles, indians, a pig, etc.

Where I am from there were three companies using eagles, a camel, an elephant, a deer, and several with Indian heads, all before 1910 and hand finished from a single county.

As far as pre-abm deco bottles gay-ola adopted a bottle design patented in 1914 in many cities. Bludwine used a hobble skirt bottle across the US as early as 1906 but that bottle was not design patented until 1918. One of the most elaborate deco sodas I have ever seen is the Kola-Mint with raised and sunken panels, horizontal rings, and the script trade mark embossed on high relief mint leaves. Every one is hand finished.

If you want sources check the Alabama Soda Book, the Oklahoma Soda Book, the Kansas Soda Book, the Arkansas Soda Book, the Illinois soda book, the Oregon Soda Book, the Washington Soda Book, and others.

The Master has spoken [].

 

[cyberdigger]

This is a weird thread.. what are you looking for Bob?

 

[cowseatmaize]

4 & 5 are the same thing as far as I can tell.
Diamond or other art deco forms I doubt exist in a BIM so picture bottles would be the thing to look for.
The range your looking for I think should be 1894 to 1920 (or so) and mostly the picture type (flags, eagles, bears and whatever. Narrowing down to soda and not including beer or just store bottles is going to make it even tougher..
I'm not a collector so I can't help at all really.[]

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Thanks for the replies ... and please post some pictures if available.

Bob

~ * ~

Examples of recommended search terms ...
Which can also be used with the words "Embossed" and/or "Crown" for alternative searches.

For circa 1900 to 1910 soda bottles:

Hand Blown Soda Bottle
Blown In Mold Soda Bottle
BIM Soda Bottle
Pre 1910 Soda Bottle
1900 Soda Bottle

For circa 1910 to 1920s soda bottles:

Automatic Bottle Machine Soda Bottle
ABM Soda Bottle
Deco Soda Bottle
Designer Soda Bottle
Post 1910 Soda Bottle
1920s Soda Bottle


Because I am primarily an ACL (Applied Color Label) soda bottle collector, this means I have a limited number of non ACLs in my collection. This also means I have to search books and the Internet and rely on the descriptions of others when trying to determine whether a particular soda bottle is hand blown or not (Pre-ABM / Pre Circa 1910).

As I indicated in my opening page, I am primarily looking for two things ...

1. Hand blown (BIM) Crown soda bottles with images embossed on them.
2. Hand blown (BIM) Crown soda bottles with fancy/intricate embossing on them.

As a result of my ongoing search, I have found a few BIM crown soda bottles with images on them. However, as I said, I have to rely on the individual's description when they claim the bottles are hand blown and not machine made, which I personally cannot confirm one way or another. In any event, hand blown bottles with images embossed on them apparently do exist, although they seem to be farther and fewer between compared to the greater numbers of plain, straight-sided bottles that don't have images and are typically embossed with block lettering, with some that used cursive script like Coca Cola and others.

As for finding fancy / intricately embossed (deco style) hand blown soda bottles prior to about 1910, the search still continues on that as I have not found any noteworthy examples yet. In fact, the more I search/research this type of bottle, the more inclined I become to ask ...

"What was it that influenced designers to evolve from straight-sided soda bottles to the fancier deco/designer types of soda bottles? Was it simply a reflection of the times - art - architecture - etc? Was it the introduction of bottle making machines and new tecnology? Was it the evolution of closures from Hutchinson to Blob to Crown? Was a combination of all of the above? Or are there other reasons not mentioned here? And if so, what were those reasons?"

By the way, some observers feel the advent of the deco era began with the introduction of the Root/Dean Coca Cola contour bottle in 1915 thru 1917. Thus, my interest in trying to find earlier examples (if they exist) prior to circa 1910.

I intend to look into this in more detail as time allows and hopefully find some logical explanations to my questions. I will share what I find in future postings. In the meantime, the following links are to examples of some of the "image" labels I've found, which are described by the sellers as "Hand blown Crown soda bottles."


Witch

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/salem-mass-soda-bottle-emb-witch-on-broom-100-yrs

Dog

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-soda-embossed-dog-john-tebo-253185085

Train

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/spencer-carbonating-co-nc-train-slug-129527960

Elk

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-soda-embossed-elk-stag-deer-253682624

And here's my current favorite ...

Jumbo Soda Bottle ... (From a 2006 listing).

Described as:

"Hand blown - Hand tooled crown top."

"This rare Jumbo soda bottle was made by the Root Glass Company of Terre Haute, Indiana over 100 years ago."

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/new-orleans-jumbo-5-cent-soda-emb-elephant-rare

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Close Up ...

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Regarding my questions about the advent of the deco era and what influenced it ...

So far I like Digger Odell's explanation best but I intend to look into for more specific reasons.

From Digger Odell's website; "Designer Soda Bottles."

http://www.bottlebooks.com/Designer%20Sodas/designer_soda_bottles.htm

"The machine made bottle era ushered in new promises for soda manufacturers. By 1910, many bottle companies had installed the Owens automatic bottle machine. With this new capability came new ideas for designs in soda bottles. New forms were appearing with advent of the Crown seal. Bottle designers created an infinite array of shapes, designs, patterns and styles as the competition heated up to quench the thirst of the public."

"The 1920s was a time expansion. The First World War had ended and ushered in tremendous technological advances that permeated every facet of industry. The Midwest was alive with new glass factories operating on a new fuel - natural gas. Around the turn of the century many factories got started in Ohio, Illinois and Indiana. The older Eastern factories struggled with both the need for fuel but also the need to update their equipment. The newer glass makers employed the newest equipment, production from which could far out strip the hand tooling done in some factories. There were glasshouses still hand tooling bottles but they were becoming scarce. The ubiquitous Hutchinson soda was declared unsanitary. The invention of the crown seal in 1892 changed the industry. Now peacetime brought prosperity heretofore unseen. The new century meant new ideas and that mean new designs and new art forms. The art of the times is reflected in the designs."