Morning Bitters Inceptum Patented 5869

[GuntherHess]

Hi, Your bottle dates 1880-1890

Wow, I am going to have to revise my whole dating theory of iron pontil use[]

 

[BRIAN S.]

ORIGINAL: GuntherHess

Hi, Your bottle dates 1880-1890

Wow, I am going to have to revise my whole dating theory of iron pontil use[]

Ring & Ham says advertisments for this product in newspapers in 1867 .

 

[Georgia Peach]

Your right Tennessee, I looked at the info for samples. The 12 1/2" quotes in the $150 - $200 range. Sorry guys!

 

[Georgia Peach]

I am getting my date from printed resources so if my information is wrong I guess it depends on where you look. The source says the samples date 1880-1890 (smooth base), larger one dates 1870-1880.

 

[GuntherHess]

1870s is possible but iron pontils past the 1860s are very rare in my experience.
Reggie's site has one...
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:K7ea0fvPRU8J:www.antiquebottles.com/rl/bitters/+Morning+Bitters+Inceptum&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
He also calls the 5869 a typo for 1869. I'm not sure I'm buying that explaination yet.
Its doesnt quite make sense since the bottle was being sold at least as early as 1867.
Maybe thats an actual patent number or has some other meaning.

 

[BRIAN S.]

ORIGINAL: GuntherHess

1870s is possible but iron pontils past the 1860s are very rare in my experience.
Reggie's site has one...
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:K7ea0fvPRU8J:www.antiquebottles.com/rl/bitters/+Morning+Bitters+Inceptum&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
He also calls the 5869 a typo for 1869. I'm not sure I'm buying that explaination yet.
Its doesnt quite make sense since the bottle was being sold at least as early as 1867.
Maybe thats an actual patent number or has some other meaning.

I agree Matt ! A patent number more than likely.
There are 3 completely different molds . The large triangle , sample triangle , and an Aqua bell shaped mold. It is very unlikely that they would have made the same 5869 mold mistake on all 3 molds.

 

[skampler]

Well if it was a patent number, and this chart is correct, then that would date the bottle 1848-1849 which could be true considering that iron pontils are usually pre 1860
http://www.bottlebooks.com/patentdater.htm

 

[KentOhio]

Patent 5869 is a file cutting machine.

 

[BRIAN S.]

ORIGINAL: KentOhio

Patent 5869 is a file cutting machine.

LOL Well there goes that theory !
I had thought at one time it may be a date 5/8/69 .
I really don't know what the numbers represent ...... maybe someone knows on the forum.

 

[GuntherHess]

I had thought at one time it may be a date 5/8/69 .

I have seen the number expressed as 5/8/69 one other place but I am sceptical of that.
Inceptum literally means 'began' or founded. 1869 seems too late. Just going by the manf style of the bottle I would have to guess 1850s to 1860s.
Its a very interesting mystery. As Brian said I have seen multiple molds with the same number so I really doubt its a mistake. Maybe its a trademark number or even a made up registration number.

after looking it doesnt seem to correspond to trademark or design #s