"No Trespassing"
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morbious_fod
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Surface as an ex-rentacop, unarmed one as well, I can give you an opinion from the security guard's point of view. Granted the first guard you mention, yeah John Wayne (aka overly serious cop wannabe with a gun), obviously had no decent training in handling trespassers. Yeah cussing and pointing guns in a "combat position" isn't exactly encouraged. Anyway even with the over acting on his part, he was completely in the right and actually if he had any training at all would have detained you until road patrol or what ever his back up support would be showed up, and they would contact the proper authorities to book you for trespassing, which you were very much guilty of. The cat was a class a douche, but he was doing his job, if he hadn't then he would have lost his job, trust me. Be glad he let you go.
I wouldn't have hesitated to have you arrested for trespassing if you had come on to my mine site during my time at that job, especially with tools. Lots of copper wire on mine sites, and people always seemed to have sticky fingers. Nothing against you personally, that is the security guard's job to watch the employer's property. It's not even that the company cares if you go digging, it's the insurance liability and the possibility of your suing if you get yourself hurt on their property.
So the next time a security guard or police officer stops you trespassing on a site, remember you're the law breaker, not them.
I wouldn't have hesitated to have you arrested for trespassing if you had come on to my mine site during my time at that job, especially with tools. Lots of copper wire on mine sites, and people always seemed to have sticky fingers. Nothing against you personally, that is the security guard's job to watch the employer's property. It's not even that the company cares if you go digging, it's the insurance liability and the possibility of your suing if you get yourself hurt on their property.
So the next time a security guard or police officer stops you trespassing on a site, remember you're the law breaker, not them.
surfaceone
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Hey Joseph,
Thanks for the security guard perspective. I agree that I was trespassing, but think that "John Wayne's" response was outta line. It was my mistake for not thoroughly circumnavigating the site before walking on. I drove up from the back street side, saw that the fences were gone and said to myself, "Oh, boy..."
I find it interesting that at the most recent site, I've been questioned, in a totally friendly manner by two actual police officers who were interested in what I was doing, made no mention of trespass, and encouraged me to watch my back in a dangerous neighborhood at twilight.
Yesterday's encounter with the security guards was also cordial and professional, but resulted in my removal from the site. I understand that this is their job, and they did it well. I bear them no ill will.
Tomorrow is another day. If it is not incinerator hot, I hope to incorporate a couple of the guerilla tactics fellow members have suggested into my bag of tricks. Where the heck is my hard hat?
Thanks for the security guard perspective. I agree that I was trespassing, but think that "John Wayne's" response was outta line. It was my mistake for not thoroughly circumnavigating the site before walking on. I drove up from the back street side, saw that the fences were gone and said to myself, "Oh, boy..."
I find it interesting that at the most recent site, I've been questioned, in a totally friendly manner by two actual police officers who were interested in what I was doing, made no mention of trespass, and encouraged me to watch my back in a dangerous neighborhood at twilight.
Yesterday's encounter with the security guards was also cordial and professional, but resulted in my removal from the site. I understand that this is their job, and they did it well. I bear them no ill will.
Tomorrow is another day. If it is not incinerator hot, I hope to incorporate a couple of the guerilla tactics fellow members have suggested into my bag of tricks. Where the heck is my hard hat?
I have found out afterward that I was on so called "historic land" but there were no signs anywhere.I will never leave my tools behind.Period.I would not ask if I could keep my property,I would have just slowly picked them up and left.You dont bring a potato rake to a gun fight and if he had shot me,he had better hope I didnt live.I must be the worst kind of Cynic because the older I get,the less life means to me.
Beware the fury of a patient man - John Dryden (1631-1700)
Diogenes was asked,"What is the difference between life and death?"
He replied,"No difference."
"Well then,why do you remain in this life?"
"Because there is no difference."
Beware the fury of a patient man - John Dryden (1631-1700)
Diogenes was asked,"What is the difference between life and death?"
He replied,"No difference."
"Well then,why do you remain in this life?"
"Because there is no difference."
whiskeyman
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Surf...overnight - after I made bond in both cases, I got 1 year probation...One case was dropped as the owner never showed for 3 hearings, so I lucked out on that one.
Oh...BTW...neither property was posted...True. And I had permission to be on one, but the neighbor called the Sheriff...I was hauled off to jail. Come court day the owner backed the neighbor - after all I was a no one.
I know what you're saying - I hate the idea of walking away from something that will likely never again see the light of day...
Woodswalker...both VA & TN have laws to call in the "Archies" for significant finds...and in some cases, as in Knoxville several years ago,...some significant only to bottle diggers, but of no real interest to Archaeology...the Archies ran off the diggers and , confiscated their finds...IF not for the diggers, the finds would never have been found, if ya know what I mean...[&:]
Oh...BTW...neither property was posted...True. And I had permission to be on one, but the neighbor called the Sheriff...I was hauled off to jail. Come court day the owner backed the neighbor - after all I was a no one.
I know what you're saying - I hate the idea of walking away from something that will likely never again see the light of day...
Woodswalker...both VA & TN have laws to call in the "Archies" for significant finds...and in some cases, as in Knoxville several years ago,...some significant only to bottle diggers, but of no real interest to Archaeology...the Archies ran off the diggers and , confiscated their finds...IF not for the diggers, the finds would never have been found, if ya know what I mean...[&:]
glass man
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ORIGINAL: surfaceone
Gd'afternoon Lauren,
The owner of this property is either the feds, or the Department of Real Good Skooling, I'm not really sure which. In rationalizing away here, I'm sayin to myself, "I'm a taxpayer, I'll even pay a diggin tax, but geeze-Louise!" I've tried to get permission to dig on land owned by quasi-public agencies before. If you want to go on an never ending snipe hunt, try even finding the person who might give permission, let alone receiving an answer that doesn't begin with, "Our insurance carrier doesn't..."
The contractors are moving real fast now. I'm thinking that the retention pond, is about to be filled with real large boulders. Though, I've not yet talked to them, I've received too many fast, dismissive answers that begin with, "Our insurance carrier doesn't..."
I guess I'm just plain flustered, frustrated, and frazzled. I have a real problem walking away from a clearly 19th Century exposed privy or trash pit, that is about to be buried, or paved over so that someone can more easily park their Datsun.
I'm not prepared to do a night dig here. Anybody have any good guerilla digging advise? I'm trying not to look up the penalties for Trespassing under the influence of antique bottle fever. Charlie, if you don't mind my asking, how long did you get in the hoosegow?
Prolly just another case of durned if you do, double durned if you don't. But, still...
Hey Jamie, another great tale. Have you listened to these guys?From.
"Who ya gonna call..."
NOPE! ANOTHER ONE I AIN'T HEARD!WHERE YOU FIND THESE?
IT IS SO HARD NOT TO DIG ON LAND WHERE THERE ARE GOOD BOTTLES AND THE LAND IS BEING USED FOR NOTHING...I KNOW A PERSON HAS THE RIGHT TO NOT LET FREAKS LIKE US DIG..BUT I'M JUST SAYING...
woodswalker
Well-Known Member
Went back to the foundation thats been calling out to me...of course its the one with the no trespassing signs....parked my car in the driveway across the street( house for sale not lived in) ran across the street with my probes and BF in tow.....I probed the dump area on the hillside and was astonished how far down I could feel glass...all the 40 and 50s stuff is on the top...now I know there has to be some stuff with age down under there....Also think I found the privy....its kinda a sunk in area and you can still see where there were boards for the floor..probed it and felt stuff.....So we decided that while the crops around are still growing and there is nothing in season to hunt were going to take our tools and have my parents drop us off...they live about 2-3 miles away....then just pick us up when we call. I think that way no one will even know were there...and It's so far out in the boonies and no neighbors real close so I don't think we'll be spotted and hopefully not shot at!! I'm thinkin next weekend if the weather is good I'm going to be there very early in the morning and find that treasure thats callin to me.....I've got a gut feeling about this place and I'm gonna go with it and take the risk.....[
][][]
Manda~
][][]Manda~
Blackglass
Well-Known Member
I've had a few run-ins
The first was last year when I went biking down town. theres an area where the highway meets the road and there is a very steep hill off one side of it. Now, I had a lot of time on my hands, so I decided to go explore the what was behind the guard-rails and see what was to be seen. It was public property, so I figuered no one would care. I parked my bike in a dumb location, where everyone driving by could see it, and I looked around down there. There was tons of bottles and trash, mostly junk, a few things from the 1950's. 45 mins later I heard some crunching in the woods and saw a distant figure. I thought "Oh great, someones stealing my bike!". So I ran up and saw a police car and 2 officers. They asked me what I was doing and I was nervous, I suppose, and I blurted out " I am taking a jog". My thought right after that was "IDIOT!". They started asking questions like I was doing drugs and I decided I would tell them I was digging for bottles, which is what I was doing. They told me they didn't want people down there because there having trouble with homeless people camping down there or something like that. They said the town didn't want people digging down there because there was quote "Historical artifacts". I almost laughed at that one. So I can through some boxes and some coca-cola bottles down there and they would considered "artifacts"?Stupidity.....Fortuanatly, the cops were very understandable and let me go without any more questions, unlike the cops in my other run-in.
___________________________________________________________________
My second run-in was on Easter this year when my family was visiting our grandparents in Mass. The railroad tracks run right behind there, and we decided to take a walk, with a bunch of my cousins, on the tracks. We walked up and back, and most of us had gone in to the yard, when 2 officers came stamping their feet and yelling over towards me and one of my cousins, we were not in the yard yet. I threw what I had found on the ground, so as he wouldn't take it from me, but saw me and made me pick it back up and bring it to him to see it. He didn't take it away, but then he singled out my cousin and and started asking him his name, number, location, and other things. Then half the party came over. The cops argued that some reported us throwing rocks at cars under the bridge. I have no doubt someone reported us, but I do not believe that anyone reported "rock Throwing", because we hadn't even gone as far as the bridge. I've learned that the average citizen is less likely to lie than most police officers these days, so I had (and still have) trouble believing their claim. Now, I did not know (along with my father) that walking on railroad tracks was trespassing. there wer no signs anywhere stating so. The cop that was doing the talking was one of the most anger-ridden of persons I have ever seen, and his assistant did nothing but take down notes. After making a few jail threats, they left. I did atleast come out with a rubber insulator and a giant spring[]
As far as digging on other peoples property without permission, never do it. The property owners have a right to shoot you if they feel it right, because you are on their "castle" without prior reservations, so to say. Besides that, it is also morally wrong. I mean, you wouldn't want people cutting down trees for their fireplace on you land.
Michael
The first was last year when I went biking down town. theres an area where the highway meets the road and there is a very steep hill off one side of it. Now, I had a lot of time on my hands, so I decided to go explore the what was behind the guard-rails and see what was to be seen. It was public property, so I figuered no one would care. I parked my bike in a dumb location, where everyone driving by could see it, and I looked around down there. There was tons of bottles and trash, mostly junk, a few things from the 1950's. 45 mins later I heard some crunching in the woods and saw a distant figure. I thought "Oh great, someones stealing my bike!". So I ran up and saw a police car and 2 officers. They asked me what I was doing and I was nervous, I suppose, and I blurted out " I am taking a jog". My thought right after that was "IDIOT!". They started asking questions like I was doing drugs and I decided I would tell them I was digging for bottles, which is what I was doing. They told me they didn't want people down there because there having trouble with homeless people camping down there or something like that. They said the town didn't want people digging down there because there was quote "Historical artifacts". I almost laughed at that one. So I can through some boxes and some coca-cola bottles down there and they would considered "artifacts"?Stupidity.....Fortuanatly, the cops were very understandable and let me go without any more questions, unlike the cops in my other run-in.
___________________________________________________________________
My second run-in was on Easter this year when my family was visiting our grandparents in Mass. The railroad tracks run right behind there, and we decided to take a walk, with a bunch of my cousins, on the tracks. We walked up and back, and most of us had gone in to the yard, when 2 officers came stamping their feet and yelling over towards me and one of my cousins, we were not in the yard yet. I threw what I had found on the ground, so as he wouldn't take it from me, but saw me and made me pick it back up and bring it to him to see it. He didn't take it away, but then he singled out my cousin and and started asking him his name, number, location, and other things. Then half the party came over. The cops argued that some reported us throwing rocks at cars under the bridge. I have no doubt someone reported us, but I do not believe that anyone reported "rock Throwing", because we hadn't even gone as far as the bridge. I've learned that the average citizen is less likely to lie than most police officers these days, so I had (and still have) trouble believing their claim. Now, I did not know (along with my father) that walking on railroad tracks was trespassing. there wer no signs anywhere stating so. The cop that was doing the talking was one of the most anger-ridden of persons I have ever seen, and his assistant did nothing but take down notes. After making a few jail threats, they left. I did atleast come out with a rubber insulator and a giant spring[
]As far as digging on other peoples property without permission, never do it. The property owners have a right to shoot you if they feel it right, because you are on their "castle" without prior reservations, so to say. Besides that, it is also morally wrong. I mean, you wouldn't want people cutting down trees for their fireplace on you land.
Michael
waskey
Well-Known Member
I had a bad experience this spring with a place. I was walking on an old road which had some old houses at the end and a stream so I walked down to the stream and found a huge dump site with all bottles from 1890-1950s and started scratching around and pulled out some nice milks when I heard a voice from the top of the hill who said get outta there; its private property!!!" I grabbed my bottles and digging tools and went up to see the man standing at the driveway and he asked what I was doing and I told him and he said it wasn't his property but he knew who onwed the property and said that the owner would want me to ask him.
So my mom drove me back to the owners house the next week to get permission and after we drove up the old gravel driveway we approached a well kept old house on the top of a large hill over looking the valley along with some other old run down poor houses in the woods. I walked up to the house and knocked on the door for permission and a man about 50 or so answered it and told me this "I didn't want to tell you but im a lawyer and your standing on private property" He said there were tons of signs along his driveway that said do not enter and no trespassing but i checked and I didnt see any signs. He said the reason he didn't want me there is because there were bad people in the old rundown houses that didn't want anyone around. He told me how he used to dig bottles as a kid and how its a great hobby. He then told me I could dig down in the dump I wanted to dig in which was on his property and far away from the other neighbors. I only had about a half hour to dig then and found some really nice milk bottles and a ton of broken locals and the dump was huge and loaded and i barely even got into it; i havent gone back since and im not sure if its really worth it.
So my mom drove me back to the owners house the next week to get permission and after we drove up the old gravel driveway we approached a well kept old house on the top of a large hill over looking the valley along with some other old run down poor houses in the woods. I walked up to the house and knocked on the door for permission and a man about 50 or so answered it and told me this "I didn't want to tell you but im a lawyer and your standing on private property" He said there were tons of signs along his driveway that said do not enter and no trespassing but i checked and I didnt see any signs. He said the reason he didn't want me there is because there were bad people in the old rundown houses that didn't want anyone around. He told me how he used to dig bottles as a kid and how its a great hobby. He then told me I could dig down in the dump I wanted to dig in which was on his property and far away from the other neighbors. I only had about a half hour to dig then and found some really nice milk bottles and a ton of broken locals and the dump was huge and loaded and i barely even got into it; i havent gone back since and im not sure if its really worth it.
morbious_fod
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ORIGINAL: surfaceone
Hey Joseph,
Thanks for the security guard perspective. I agree that I was trespassing, but think that "John Wayne's" response was outta line. It was my mistake for not thoroughly circumnavigating the site before walking on. I drove up from the back street side, saw that the fences were gone and said to myself, "Oh, boy..."
I find it interesting that at the most recent site, I've been questioned, in a totally friendly manner by two actual police officers who were interested in what I was doing, made no mention of trespass, and encouraged me to watch my back in a dangerous neighborhood at twilight.
Yesterday's encounter with the security guards was also cordial and professional, but resulted in my removal from the site. I understand that this is their job, and they did it well. I bear them no ill will.
Tomorrow is another day. If it is not incinerator hot, I hope to incorporate a couple of the guerilla tactics fellow members have suggested into my bag of tricks. Where the heck is my hard hat?
Trust me there are very few of those John Wayne cop wannabe security guards out there. The one you encountered fits the description quite well, you most likely disturbed his nap. LOL! Most security guards don't like those John Wayne type morons either, I've worked with a few myself, and your encounter sounds like one I have worked with. We were supposed to be unarmed, but he carried a piece under the seat of his truck. He was from McDowell County West "by God" Virginia so I wasn't shocked, but he was a read douche as well.
Good luck with the hard hat trick, but remember most competent security guards know, at least by sight, every cat that should be on that site, and will ask for credentials of strangers. I did say competent, you may pull one of the countless guards who are just there to take up space. Good luck.
