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One of the nicest inks I've ever seen

GRACE ABOUND

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2020
60
18
that's a very early ink well

Indentions on both sides of the neck the ink are for holding the quill pen that is a very nice ink it's almost like a schoolhouse ink I love the Isle of the schoolhouse inks . very nice find
Hi Nick : I Will Send You Some Images
Of My Old Ink Wells.
 

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Shades of History

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2021
61
33
Nice inks, everyone that has posted! Answer to a couple questions and an update: don't worry, I did not pay anything outrageous for this bottle. I paid probably twice what a good replica would fairly cost which is a bit of a bummer, but nothing crazy(in other words nowhere even close to what it could actually be worth as an authentic piece).

You guys who think it's a repro have made many valid points, but I'm still 50/50 with a ton of new evidence. I have done some research into a lot of specifics(and learned a lot in the process), and have been unable to "shoot down" this bottle as a replica completely. There's nothing it has or doesn't have that completely 100% pins it down as a replica, along with many things that make it weird for a replica.

Interestingly, there is also a narrow window of time between 1905 and probably about 1912 where this bottle could have been manufactured on a non-Owens machine of some sort for small bore bottles. They described how some of these non-standard machines worked in terms of the "mold" and showed an example, which was very similar to what my ink has(the seams are slightly offset, and the example they were majorly offset).

I will post again some time today with links, quotes, more pics, and explain the connections I'm making here. Like I said, 50/50 could certainly be a replica, but it would be at least as odd a replica as it would be an original and there's nothing expressly precluding it from having been made between 1905 and 1912.

Another thing: My town was founded in the 1870's as a railroad town and mining boomed at the 1890s/turn of the century into the 1910's. There's potentially good bottles to be found, but so far I haven't found them. All I find(if I'm lucky) is 20's, 30's and 40's stuff, and usually it's not even that it's just junk from the 50's-70's.
 

RelicRaker

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
653
63
Love the color and shape of the first. I've dug a lot of umbrellas, cones, and "fishing reels" but never anything like that. The base is very neat for a Victorian ink—which says repro to me—every BIM ink or mucilage I've dug has some bubbling or wonkiness in the base. Beautiful piece regardless.

The 2nd ink is 1800s. I've seen UK larks pull em out of the mud. Sweet sheared lip.
 

Shades of History

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2021
61
33
Love the color and shape of the first. I've dug a lot of umbrellas, cones, and "fishing reels" but never anything like that. The base is very neat for a Victorian ink—which says repro to me—every BIM ink or mucilage I've dug has some bubbling or wonkiness in the base. Beautiful piece regardless.

The 2nd ink is 1800s. I've seen UK larks pull em out of the mud. Sweet sheared lip.
If you mean mine(if which authentic is an early 1905-1910 non-Owens small bore ABM)-then I didn't take the picture right. The base is not neat at all-it's uneven with a big convex bulge in one area and a little concave "pinch" with some sort of gash/open bubble/manufacturing scar. I'll try to get some better pics.
 

Shades of History

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2021
61
33
Here is the website I used as a tool with all the mold and machine information, and dating techniques. Dating Page (sha.org)
If anyone really wants, I can go and get direct quotes to back any of the following statements, but it's easier to summarize my findings.
What I learned from this site is the following things:

1.) The color was most popular from 1840-1880 and uncommon beyond that, but I've seen a few turn of the century and 1910's bottles around in that color.

2.)Couldn't find the exact shape referenced, but went to the ink section, specifically the cone and umbrella area, because it shares some similarities to these types. It says straight up that machine made inks "came in every color" their 19th century counterparts did. Now some might be harder to come by, but they specifically stated that all those colors are possible on machine made bottles.

It also said umbrella shaped inks became less popular and phased out of catalogues about 1909, generally before any known examples were machine made, but there is a small possibility. Plus, my bottle is not quite a traditional umbrella(like the ones that are always copied) but sort looks to me like it could be a transitional shape into the round and cone shapes that remained popular throughout the 20's and stuff.

3.) There were non-Owens type machines capable of producing small bore bottles such as this between 1905 and I think 1915 and the mold marks looks very similar to mine, and have a tendency for there to be an "offset" which I'll take pictures of. The seems are a bit sloppy and thick. Mine also has crude quality glass with multiple bubbles, a couple of which are large. All of those fit and finish characteristics are consistent with a pre-1920's machine made bottle.

People making replicas did not try to copy early machine characteristics, because they didn't even know what that was and copying 19th century bottles was more popular. Replicas have a tendency to either be blown in a mold like their authentic 19th century counterparts, or to be made on more modern machines that leave different more "normal/modern" types of seams and less crudity. Also, they usually don't try to make some weird transitional shape that "could have been", they simply copy the usual umbrella and cone styles most popular with collectors.

Could it still be a replica? absolutely, but I think that's far from a given. Hey, at least I learned a lot doing the research. I'll try to get some pics sometime soon to better show the mold seems, and the crude and bulging base.
 
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"There were non-Owens type machines capable of producing small bore bottles such as this between 1905 and I think 1915 and the mold marks looks very similar to mine, and have a tendency for there to be an "offset"

The way the mold seam sharply offsets at the lip looks like early ABM to me, I've never seen a Wheaton or other repro that recreated that seam off set, but many of the ABM corked small bottles I've dug in 1900-1910 context exhibit this seam off set. If it were not for that i would call repro, as the color and shape both have that repro flavor...
 

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