Unusual Glassware

[PBrown7777]

This was accumulated at the same time as some bottles I acquired. Not sure what it is (vase, fancy decanter, etc.?), but would like to know if anyone has seen one and what it would be worth. It's a beautiful cornflower blue and in mint condition, 13 1/2" tall?

 

[cowseatmaize]

I hard to tell without more info. Is it machine made? It looks like a knock off of a cabin bitters but none I've seen. I'm thinking one of those flavored olive oil type thing found at TJX and other stores but I'm not certain.

 

[RED Matthews]

Well the main question is are there seams on the glass surface of the finish? IF THERE ARE - it is a machine made bottle. That is question #1. #2 is what does the bottom have to tell you? If it has any any excessive lettering or trade marks - it isn't very old! If it has a circular contact of strange surface in the circle - It is worth taking home with pride and a smile. RED Matthews

 

[PBrown7777]

Well, definitely not the type found at TJX/Marshall's. There are very small seams down two sides. The top appears applied, as well as the bottom. Circular smooth depression on bottom with the edges at corners being pebbled. No numbers, lettering, etc. Absolutely no identification marks. Beautiful color and embossing on sides. Thanks for your info. I know it's at least 20 years old, but that's all I know.

 

[RED Matthews]

Ok so I have to assume there are no seams on the finish. If you can't know if the finish was an applied hot ring of glass tooled, we will have to see a close up of the finish. Your description of the bottom doesn't tell us if it haw a pontil mark or not. So we need more information to decide what it is worth. RED Matthews

 

[RED Matthews]

When you said the bottom might be applied - you tell me you need to go buy "Antique Trader Bottles"by Michael Polak and find your bottle. The bottom of a bottle can not be applied so that chills me beyond trying to help you - until you do some homework. It could be a good one. Try a couple more pictures of the finish and the bottom. RED Matthews

 

[PBrown7777]

Red - I'm trying. I apologize for not being as knowledgeable as yourself. This bottle(?) is a mystery or is it not such a mystery and is just a 1960s-era decorative piece. I've examined it again with a magnifying glass and the seams start from 1/4" from the bottom and go up to the bottom of the lip (1/2" from top). It still appears to be an applied top and I have to say again the bottom still appears to be applied. See pics attached. Pic#1 shows the seam extending to just under the lip; pic#2 shows the bottom seam which extends all around the bottom and why I say it "appears" to be applied; pic#3 shows the bottom. I have a 4th pic that shows one of the side seams. I'll also order the book you suggested...it may not shed light on this one, but excerpts of it look to be extremely informative. I do thank you for your help.

 

[PBrown7777]

Red - this is the 4th pic. Phil

 

[RED Matthews]

I tried o send you a PM earlier today and it crashed off before I was done. I like the looks of your bottle. It looks to be a good one. I was trying to explain how the parison shape determines the distribution of the glass thickness in a finished bottle. That includes the bottom glass also.
The bottle bottom can never be applied separately. RED M.

 

[PBrown7777]

Red:Below is info that probably answers the question on this bottle.Below is some additional information that Bill provided me when I questioned him about the pontil scar at the base of the bottle (which is apparently a fake!). This may be more information than you need, but Bill Lindsey is a wealth of information and wonderful resource!

"...it is certainly contrived, i.e., it is a feature engraved into the base plate of the machine mold OR it is possibly (but unlikely) a ?ejection? or valve mark from the use of a ?press-and-blow? machine.

Both Wheaton and Clevenger made fake pontil scars on the bases of their reproduction/fantasy bottles to make them more ?authentic? looking I guess. Clevenger at some point in their long history (~1930 to ~2007, I think) switched from really using pontil rods ? thus leaving real, rough and sharp pontil scars ? to just engraving a rough looking indentation in the base plate of the mold so their bottles have a pseudo pontil scar. This was likely after they moved (like originally for mid-19th century glass houses) from the harder to use pontil rod to a much faster and efficient snap tool of some type.

Wheaton?s fully machine-made bottles (and some foreign fantasy types I?ve seen) had pseudo ?pontil scars? that were also roughly engraved spots on the base plate to fake a pontil scar but they don?t really look real at all. They were totally machine made bottles that came no where near a pontil rod.

The instant key give away to me that the bottle was certainly machine-made (besides it ?looks? like a modern fantasy bottle) is one parison mold seam just below the base of the lip/finish on the outside as well as one (or maybe the same; images not clear enough to say for sure) faintly visible on the inside of the bore on the away-from-the-camera side of the bottle. Only machines produce those types of diagnostic features."

Thank you again for connecting with Odyssey,

All my best,
Ellen


Ellen Gerth
Archaeological Curator
Odyssey Marine Exploration
www.shipwreck.net
813-830-6583