911-------- where were you?

[Plumbata]

HISTORY!

This here, my friends, is one of the major weaknesses displayed by both sides of this extraordinarily complicated debate. Over the years so many inherently good people here have been drawn into the divisive fray characteristic of modern politics. Y'all wonder why Gunthmeds is against this? It's because factionalism and uncompromising division of beliefs is one of the death knells of a society, whether as big as a nation or small as this forum! Even though I may disagree with the politics espoused by some I still like you all as individuals (well, most of ya []).

PLEASE, instead of attacking the politics and characters of individuals can we sublimate the knee-jerk reactions into a higher-order and more civil discussion of theory and history, if it is to be discussed at all?

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

Back when GB Jr was President I got into a very interesting conversation with a brilliant but troubled homeless ex-marine named Jack. The first sentence he spoke to me included the word "modicum" so I figured he was worth the time []. I was dissatisfied with many of Bush's manners and methods and Jack said to me that despite his faults, he is still the leader of the nation and Commander-in-chief and as such is owed respect and deference even if one disagrees with him. Took me a while to internalize the statement but it is the best policy if one wants to maintain a relatively harmonious society. So what if you dislike Bush or Obama? Show some respect and express your disapproval with your vote!

The only presidents I like and agree with are all dead. I don't find the modern manifestation of the Republicans and Democrats or liberals and conservatives appealing at all. All sides are saturated with idiocy, unthinking dogma, and unrealistic or untenable agendas. Neither side seems to have an intelligent and enlightened plan for the long-term future; they just thrive on taking a step forward or pushing their opponents a step back, and seem to equate this silly reciprocal motion with actual progress. I'm a minarchist libertarian (tons of wackos in this category too lol) who loves the idea of personal freedom to pursue happiness and business more than just about anything else. Fiscal conservative and social liberal. Liberty or death and freedom for all, my friends. I may be criticized as a head-in-the-clouds idealist but I'd rather reside in the realm of beauty and harmonious industry than fight pointless fights with my fellow man. Pyrrhic victories are the best one can hope for when fighting amongst ourselves in this manner.

Surf may lay down some pretty heavy politics but I doubt that spreading his personal political "brand" is his main agenda. Maintaining general anonymity isn't nefarious; some people just don't like being an "open book" for anyone and everyone to read, which is rather typical in regards to the way older generations approach their activity on the internet. He is well-read and enjoys posting current archaeological news as well as political news. His politics are important to him and just like the bottles that are important to us, he is driven to share with others. Both Jim and Surf have vibrant and strong personalities, and when engaged in a similar pursuit great things happen. Agreeing to disagree in the best plan here.

In regards to differing personal politics, I'll refer back to this:

ORIGINAL: Plumbata

Two opposing views can't both occupy the space of "objective correctness" at the same time, so the only logical conclusion I can come up with is that both sides, in sum total, are wholly or partially incorrect.

The same applies here. No one is objectively correct. Not me, not Surf, not Jim, not Matt, not Rick, not Andy, not Obama, not Romney, not anybody. The complexity inherent to politics is so extreme that no human mind is capable of understanding or observing the "big picture" and its multitudinous historical roots as it exists in objective reality. Each of us and our unique personality types and life experiences subconsciously dictate to us what elements we see and how we interpret them, thus informing our own personal beliefs. Do what is right in your heart and if it includes spreading your ideas; do so with well-documented historical fact and leave out your opinions and summary judgements so those on the receiving end can make up their own mind without feeling forced to think the same way.

 

[surfaceone]

Hear, Hear! Stephen,

Very well said, as usual.

Historically, it's all so eerily Carteresque, except on a much broader front.

Here's a map of "the protests" as of yesterday.

From.

The good old Atlantic has this:

"Red indicates violent protests over the film, yellow indicates non-violent protests. Click to enlarge. (Wikimedia/Atlantic)" From.

All this talk of "the film" is such a red herring. These riots in the Arab Street are no more about some Youtube video than the man in the moon. You've seen the crowds. How many of those guys know what youtube is?

Voice of America.

The biographical highlights of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, that I have seen, have been shifting and almost entirely unsavory. With that many aliases, it's gonna be a hot minute before we know the story on that guy, or who is pulling his strings.

The more I look at Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, the worse it looks. Why is this man and his associates not in an ICE facility on the way back to Egypt?

Is this part of the President's new immigration "policy"? [8D]

 

[cyberdigger]

Your "% muslim map" is screwed up.. India is mostly Hindu.

 

[surfaceone]

Right you are, Chuck.

"Islam is the second-most practiced religion in the Republic of India after Hinduism, with 13.4% of the country's population (over 160 million as per 2001 census)." wiki-Islam.

"My" map was from The Atlantic. I suggest you straighten those birds out. [8D]

 

[cyberdigger]

Well doesn't make much difference anyhow does it.. a billion of this persuasion, a billion of that.. sorta takes the sport out of it.. leaves it to the most demented trouble makers to cause a stir.. present company excluded, of course.. !

 

[rockbot]

Abraham Lincoln in 1851 was asked if he would be interested in running for political office. His response at the time, " There is but only two jobs
that require no skill, a politician and a teacher".