Help with Hobbleskirt ID

[hemihampton]

Interesting. from what I read, the lawyer for Coca Cola Harold Hirsch, was tired of suing imitators of Coca Cola. SO, he got the idea & requested them to come up with a new unique bottle to combat these imitators. LEON.

 

[SODABOB]

Correcto! As of 1919 there were over 300 imitators - although some of them had already ceased by then ...

 

[SODABOB]

Ivy

We haven't forgotten about you or your bottle. We just got sidetracked with some other stuff. All things considered, the best I can come up with as to when your bottle was made is found in the attached reference from Bill Porter's Checklist - which was published in 2008. I realize that some of what he claims might be a little confusing, but it's the most reliable source I am currently aware of. Bill has over 2000 Coca Cola bottles in his collection and has been collecting and researching them for at least 20 years. Unless something more substantial can be found to more accurately date your bottle, I recommend we go Bill's checklist for the time being. Thanks again for sharing your bottle with all of us. If nothing else, your bottle certainly opened the door for the discovery of some other cool finds that were previously unknown. And that's a huge milestone in my book.

Thanks, again.


Bob

P.S. / In other words, Pre 1920

 

[hemihampton]

this may answer some questions? Leon.

 

[Ivybriana]

this may answer some questions? Leon.

View attachment 246635View attachment 246636

this is really interesting! I work for a university so have access to quite a few historical databases and have been looking around too, most of the stuff that y'all have found I have seen/seen something similar but definitely haven't come across this yet.

 

[Ivybriana]

Coca-Cola's website says this (link to full article below/Italics mine):

"In early 1916, a committee composed of bottlers and Company officials met to choose the bottle design. The Root version was the clear winner and The Coca-Cola Company and the Root Glass Company entered an agreement to have six glass companies across the U.S. use the bottle shape. The contract called for the bottles to be colored with “German Green” which was later called “Georgia Green” in homage to the home state of The Coca-Cola Company......Even though the bottle had gone into production in early 1916, not all bottlers immediately jumped to change out their glass stock. For many bottlers, the glass bottles were the most expensive portion of their business and they needed to be convinced to make the change. The company began to do that with national advertising featuring the exclusive bottle. The first national calendar featuring the bottle appeared in 1918 and by 1920, most of the bottlers were using the distinctive bottle."

The History of the Coca-Cola Contour Bottle - News & Articles

One of the most famous shapes in the world is the iconic contour fluted lines of the Coca-Cola bottle. Check out this story and more news from The Coca-Cola Company.

www.coca-colacompany.com

Given the info above, everything we have discovered and everything that was previously known, I would think it's fair to assume that:
1) Graham Glass was one of the first 6 bottling companies [referenced above] producing the Root-patented Hobbleskirt/Contour bottles.
2) [As stated by Coca-Cola themselves] The bottles went into production in 1916
2) Graham Glass used 576 as their code for Coca-Cola bottles and used letters P-S to represent date codes for 4 years before switching to new format in 1920
3) [Given the 1915 Patent Date embossing on bottle as well as the 576EP Heel Code embossing] My bottle was made in 1916 by Graham Glass company

If anyone can come up with solid evidence as to why any of that wouldn't hold true I would love to hear it!

 

[hemihampton]

Congrats, it's very possible you got one of the earliest hobbleskirt, if so a rare one. I'd guess the 1916 time frame was the test/trial run period. which would be more limited explaining why so hard to find. I'd go back & look for more. Curious what a nice undamaged one would sell for? LEON.

 

[Ivybriana]

Pricing for the Hobbleskirts is crazy, it’s all over the map. I’m curious to know what mine might sell for too, despite the damage. And as you said, are there others there? If only bottles could talk, would love to know how it ended up a thousand miles away in New Orleans.

 

[SODABOB]

Ivy

Even though I would like to confirm that your bottle was made in 1916, according to the attached pages from Norman L. Dean's book, "The Man Behind The Bottle" published in 2010, the first Graham hobble-skirt bottles were made during the second year 1917. Please note that Norman L. Dean was the son of Earl R. Dean who designed the original prototype in 1915. The book contains firsthand knowledge exchanged between Norman Dean and his father Earl Dean. The long story short is that I consider the information in the book to be the most reliable of anything ever published. I say this because Earl Dean was there at the time and involved with what took place. In other words, if Earl Dean said the first Graham hobble-skirts were made during the second year in 1917, then I am confident that the information is accurate. I have a copy of the book that I acquired from Jeff Dean who is Earl Dean's grandson. Jeff had his dad, Norman Dean, sign it for me. Jeff told me at the time that his dad only signed about a dozen books, and that mine is one of them.

Bob

 

[Ivybriana]

Hey Bob, I would also consider that a pretty reliable source, so I'm not doubting you. But I do have a few questions*....

a) why have a date code for a year that no bottles were made? The Graham Glass P/Q/R/S date coding system seems to be pretty universally accepted as I have seen it referenced in a few places, but why create a code that includes a year where no bottles were produced and so would never be used? That's completely illogical and I would find it hard to believe that would actually happen; it would be one thing if this were a universal code developed by Coke or Root or whatever for all bottlers, but this is a Graham Glass specific code.
b) how were these 1917 Graham Hobbleskirts made exactly? The bottle I have clearly is not a standard full seam all the way up to the top bottle machine made bottle, it's made using a technique that predates that, so at what point did Graham switch over?

*I know these aren't actually questions you can probably answer, just things to ponder.