T D
Well-Known Member
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ORIGINAL: celerycola
Bob,
Why would I feel ridiculed or discredited? I base my comments on forty-five years of collecting and researching soda bottles and their history. I have been an active member of bottle clubs from New York to California and have probably attended five hundred bottle shows in that time. I assure you that I have looked at every one of the hundreds of soda bottles at each show, totaling many thousands in the time I've been collecting. I've published six books based on my research and contributed to a dozen or more. I have read and re-read the hundred plus books on my shelf concerning soft drink bottles and their history. A google search is no substitute for getting out to bottle shows and reading the substantial amount of published research available. If your only sources are online you can only view the tip of the iceberg of what information is available.
You didn't acknowledge my post stating the 1906 date for the hobbleskirt Bludwine bottle. Instead you came up with a different date without identifying what bottle you dated to that year, so I asked for more information. Of the three bottles I referenced, two(Bludwine and Gay-Ola) were considered to have sufficient DECOrative elements to receive protection under Federal Patent Laws for their design. If the United States Government declares a bottle to be DECOrative then that is good enough for me. The third bottle, the Kola-Mint, has raised and scalloped panels, horizontal lines, high relief Mint Leaf, and script trademark covering ninety per cent of the bottle. If that is not sufficient to convince you then you should get a copy of the Deco Soda Bottles book where all three are listed. I know Brian applied his years of experience collecting DECOrative soda bottle to writing his book. Until someone else produces a more comprehensive tome on DECOrative sodas it looks like Brians book is the authority.
You may have noticed I refer to DECOrative soda bottles rather than Art Deco. I haven't taken enough art history courses to warrant a degree in the subject but I do have to agree with the Sage of Chinquapin Falls who kindly reminds us that Art Deco began in the 1920's, years after DECOrative soda bottles appeared. To honestly confuse the two, or deliberately combine them, to the horror of Art History Professors everywhere, is beyond oversimplifying, it is plain wrong.
I think it is fair for everyone to evaluate a bottle for themselves whether it qualifies as DECOrative or not. Just as we all choose what criteria we use in deciding what to collect. Since a majority of collectors are not joining us here online whatever rules are legislated will carry no weight with collectors at large.
I apologize for my delayed response: I was attending bottle shows in New Hampshire and Alabama, visiting bottle collecting friends and hunting bottles in twelve states.
ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB
Dennis:
Despite how it might look, please know that I am not trying to ridicule or discredit you, and I apologize if it seems that way. Its just that you had me confused earlier and I thought I would post some pictures and information regarding the three bottles you recently mentioned. I will let individual members decide for themselves whether they agree or disagree with your descriptions. As for myself, I honestly do not feel that any of the three bottles falls into the category of what I would call a true deco soda bottle. However, I do agree the bottles are forerunners of the deco style and definitely had an influence on the deco designs. So please know that I appreciate and respect your contributions and will use them to broaden my research attempts. At the same time I hope you will respect my contributions as well. As it stands now, I plan to continue my research regarding ...
1. Circa / Pre-ABM / BIM / Hand-blown / Tooled / Crown / Deco-style Soda Bottles. (If they exist) ???
And ...
2. When and what might have influenced the transition from common, straight-sided soda bottles to the more elaborately designed bottles that became extremely popular in the 1920s.
Thanks to everyone who have participated in and/or are following this thread with interest.
Respectfully,
Bob
Some interesting stuff in this post Bob, I had never considered the influence and I want to tell you I'm impressed by the research you did here. I would consider the George Eagle a 'Geometric' design and not a Deco bottle.ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB
For those interested in doing their own research regarding the various influences on Art Deco and Deco, here's another person's view to help get you started ...
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Please click and read pages 1 through 6
http://architecture.about.com/od/artdeco/ss/artdeco.htm
From Page 1 ...
"But most of all, Art Deco expressed excitement over a stunning archeological find in Egypt."
From Page 3 ...
"Ancient Egyptian art told stories. Highly stylized icons had symbolic meanings."
"Art Deco architects often lavished their buildings with symbolic images."
From Page 4 ...
"The Terra-cotta facing and the strong vertical bands are typical Art Deco features borrowed from antiquity. Other characteristics of the style include zigzag designs, echoing patterns and vivid colors that would delight the slumbering Egyptian king."
From Page 5 ...
"When Howard Carter opened the tomb of the ancient Egyptian King Tutankhamen, the world was dazzled by the brilliance of the treasure."
"But, Art Deco design is about more than color and ornamental patterns. The very shape of these buildings expresses a fascination for orderly forms and primitive architecture. The early Art Deco skyscrapers suggest Egyptian or Assyrian pyramids with terraced steps rising to the top. "
From Page 6 ...
"Skyscrapers built during the 1920s and early 1930s may not have the brilliant colors or zigzag designs we associate with the Art Deco style. However, these buildings often took on a distinctive Art Deco shape: The ziggurat.
A ziggurat is a terraced pyramid with each story smaller than the one below it. Art Deco skyscrapers may have complex groupings of rectangles or trapezoids. Sometimes two contrasting materials are used to create subtle bands of color, a strong sense of line, or the illusion of pillars. The logical progression of steps and the rhythmical repetition of shapes suggest ancient architecture, yet also celebrate a new, technological era.
Art Deco is an eclectic style -- a conglomeration of influences from many cultures and historic periods. It's easy to overlook the Egyptian elements in the design of a posh theater or a streamlined diner. But the tomblike shape of twentieth century "ziggurats" make it clear that the world was in a tizzy over King Tut."
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Meet Jackie Craven
http://architecture.about.com/bio/Jackie-Craven-3819.htm