SODAPOPBOB
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IN SEARCH OF / NON-ABM / FANCY-IMAGE / CROWN SODA BOTTLES
- Thread starter SODAPOPBOB
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SODAPOPBOB
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Final P.S.
In case you were wondering ...
Based on various sources, King Tutankhamen's entire treasure is currently worth an estimated one-billion dollars ... Yep! That's the same as one-thousand million!
In case you were wondering ...
Based on various sources, King Tutankhamen's entire treasure is currently worth an estimated one-billion dollars ... Yep! That's the same as one-thousand million!
SODAPOPBOB
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SODAPOPBOB
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SODAPOPBOB
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SODAPOPBOB
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SODAPOPBOB
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celerycola
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Bob,
Why would I feel ridiculed or discredited? I base my comments on forty-five years of collecting and researching soda bottles and their history. I have been an active member of bottle clubs from New York to California and have probably attended five hundred bottle shows in that time. I assure you that I have looked at every one of the hundreds of soda bottles at each show, totaling many thousands in the time I've been collecting. I've published six books based on my research and contributed to a dozen or more. I have read and re-read the hundred plus books on my shelf concerning soft drink bottles and their history. A google search is no substitute for getting out to bottle shows and reading the substantial amount of published research available. If your only sources are online you can only view the tip of the iceberg of what information is available.
You didn't acknowledge my post stating the 1906 date for the hobbleskirt Bludwine bottle. Instead you came up with a different date without identifying what bottle you dated to that year, so I asked for more information. Of the three bottles I referenced, two(Bludwine and Gay-Ola) were considered to have sufficient DECOrative elements to receive protection under Federal Patent Laws for their design. If the United States Government declares a bottle to be DECOrative then that is good enough for me. The third bottle, the Kola-Mint, has raised and scalloped panels, horizontal lines, high relief Mint Leaf, and script trademark covering ninety per cent of the bottle. If that is not sufficient to convince you then you should get a copy of the Deco Soda Bottles book where all three are listed. I know Brian applied his years of experience collecting DECOrative soda bottle to writing his book. Until someone else produces a more comprehensive tome on DECOrative sodas it looks like Brians book is the authority.
You may have noticed I refer to DECOrative soda bottles rather than Art Deco. I haven't taken enough art history courses to warrant a degree in the subject but I do have to agree with the Sage of Chinquapin Falls who kindly reminds us that Art Deco began in the 1920's, years after DECOrative soda bottles appeared. To honestly confuse the two, or deliberately combine them, to the horror of Art History Professors everywhere, is beyond oversimplifying, it is plain wrong.
I think it is fair for everyone to evaluate a bottle for themselves whether it qualifies as DECOrative or not. Just as we all choose what criteria we use in deciding what to collect. Since a majority of collectors are not joining us here online whatever rules are legislated will carry no weight with collectors at large.
I apologize for my delayed response: I was attending bottle shows in New Hampshire and Alabama, visiting bottle collecting friends and hunting bottles in twelve states.
Why would I feel ridiculed or discredited? I base my comments on forty-five years of collecting and researching soda bottles and their history. I have been an active member of bottle clubs from New York to California and have probably attended five hundred bottle shows in that time. I assure you that I have looked at every one of the hundreds of soda bottles at each show, totaling many thousands in the time I've been collecting. I've published six books based on my research and contributed to a dozen or more. I have read and re-read the hundred plus books on my shelf concerning soft drink bottles and their history. A google search is no substitute for getting out to bottle shows and reading the substantial amount of published research available. If your only sources are online you can only view the tip of the iceberg of what information is available.
You didn't acknowledge my post stating the 1906 date for the hobbleskirt Bludwine bottle. Instead you came up with a different date without identifying what bottle you dated to that year, so I asked for more information. Of the three bottles I referenced, two(Bludwine and Gay-Ola) were considered to have sufficient DECOrative elements to receive protection under Federal Patent Laws for their design. If the United States Government declares a bottle to be DECOrative then that is good enough for me. The third bottle, the Kola-Mint, has raised and scalloped panels, horizontal lines, high relief Mint Leaf, and script trademark covering ninety per cent of the bottle. If that is not sufficient to convince you then you should get a copy of the Deco Soda Bottles book where all three are listed. I know Brian applied his years of experience collecting DECOrative soda bottle to writing his book. Until someone else produces a more comprehensive tome on DECOrative sodas it looks like Brians book is the authority.
You may have noticed I refer to DECOrative soda bottles rather than Art Deco. I haven't taken enough art history courses to warrant a degree in the subject but I do have to agree with the Sage of Chinquapin Falls who kindly reminds us that Art Deco began in the 1920's, years after DECOrative soda bottles appeared. To honestly confuse the two, or deliberately combine them, to the horror of Art History Professors everywhere, is beyond oversimplifying, it is plain wrong.
I think it is fair for everyone to evaluate a bottle for themselves whether it qualifies as DECOrative or not. Just as we all choose what criteria we use in deciding what to collect. Since a majority of collectors are not joining us here online whatever rules are legislated will carry no weight with collectors at large.
I apologize for my delayed response: I was attending bottle shows in New Hampshire and Alabama, visiting bottle collecting friends and hunting bottles in twelve states.
SODAPOPBOB
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Celerycola / Dennis:
I don't mean this to sound like I'm being facetious because I'm not. Nor am I challenging anyone's credentials, their years of experience, or anything of the sort. But it does sound to me as if you're saying that any soda bottle which you describe as DECOaritive is basically a loose form of a Deco Soda Bottle irregardless of when it was patented and/or produced just as long as it is decorated with fancy embossing. It also sounds to me as if you are saying it is in the eye of the beholder to determine what bottles are considered Deco bottles and what aren't. And if this is in fact what you are saying or even insinuating, then I guess I need to go back to square one and re-research the definition of Art Deco and Deco.
As for the word DECOrative / decorative in relation to U.S. bottle patents, the most often used word I am familiar with is "Ornamental," which can refer to fancy embossing as well as a unique shape. I'm not saying the word "decorative" doesn't exist among U.S. bottle patent terminology, but if it does I believe it's far and few between and a term I have not seen used.
The patent text below is for a Gay-Ola-style of bottle which I have highlighted the word "ornamental." Every one of the Paul A. Ginter bottles that I posted links to also use the word ornamental, and I have seen the same word used as far back as 1902.
Link:
https://www.google.com/patents/USD51617?pg=PA1&dq=51,617+bottle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FZLxUdn0K4XBqwGT3oDoBQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=51%2C617%20bottle&f=false
I may not understand exactly what you are trying to say or the point you are trying to make, (maybe we're actually saying the same thing and agreeing, I'm not sure) but I do know what I'm trying to say and the point I'm trying to make, which is ...
It is my opinion that pre-abm (circa pre-1910) soda bottles with fancy embossing and/or a unique shape were predecessors of the Deco soda bottle era, but feel deco soda bottles had their true beginning around 1923 and was hugely influenced by the discovery of King Tut's tomb in Egypt in 1922.
Respectfully,
Bob
~ * ~
The term "Ornamental" on U.S. bottle patents goes back at least as early as 1902, but I do not feel that all ornamental soda bottles are Deco soda bottles!
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lblackvelvet
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Hello Bob, Have you received my e-mails?
