PLEASE HELP! NOT A WAR TIME 7UP?

[thesodafizz]

True, the bottle in question is the one of the original post - but sometimes you have to include other data to come to a conclusion. The other examples are useful in getting to that conclusion. I appreciate it greatly to see the other examples. It answered a question I raised in one of my previous posts that I'd never seen one in the process of fading off. Several supplied examples of that for me. The reason I had such a doubt about the fading red (or orange) was that my best friend's dad owned half the car lots in my home town. I was always amazed to see the white cars flake off and rust on the lot - brand new unsold. I asked why and was told the white paint was missing something (what, I don't remember) that kept it white, but from adhering to the primer as well as other colors, which allowed it to come off and the spot to rust. Remembering that caused confusion for me that why would white stay on the bottle, and the red to fade off, when it wouldn't stay on a car. Secondly, then I remembered that red, during that same time period, was usually the first color to fade off on the cars, losing its shine to a dingy, dull color. So, it fits. Red fades off cars too, or at least used to. (They use clear coat now to keep cars shiny and from fading. But the older cars didn't have clear coat - so they faded, chipped off and rusted.) Paint has come a long way in the last 50 or so years......

Keep the info coming....

K

 

[morbious_fod]

Since people are showing early acl bottles I thought I would throw these two into the mix. They are two Rums Dry bottles from the Nehi bottling company of Bluefield, VA. The one on the left is a 1938 and the one on the right is a 1943. Maybe this will give a good idea about the differences in the earlier acls as compared to the later ones. The earlier ones do seem to be duller in color and maybe even a bit thinner.

 

[thesodafizz]

Morbious, your two bottles illusttate the differences beautifully. There's a big difference in the same exact label/bottle in just five years.

It seems to me that along the way of solving the Seven-Up red vs. no red question, we might as well delve into it and understand the process a little better as we go. They definitely did make improvements as they went, and learned what worked better.

Let's keep the info coming!
K

 

[GeorgiaVol]

I know this is a BAAADLY damaged bottle, but I thought I would show one where the red color was the last to go.

 

[T D]

Thanks for the Rums Dry pics. That illustrates very nicely what I was saying several posts ago. I have the newer version, but not the older one. Nice...

 

[thesodafizz]

Re: the Rums Dry, I think mine is the older one because I remember it being a duller yellow than your nice, brighter one on the right.

I also remembered something from my notes - and also something Bill Lockhart had asked me for at one time - about the ACL process.

It is from an article in First Annual Blue Book of the National Carborator and Bottler, February 1939.

The link to a copy of it:

http://www.bottlebooks.com/ACL%201937/bottles_applied_color_labels.htm

I have the Eighth Annual Blue Book of American Carbonator & Bottler, March 1946, and looked in it. It has no details about ACL labeling process. It does have one article about labels - in the first sentence - it says if you don't use the Applied Color Labels to identify your product...then it goes on in detailed description about how to apply paper labels properly. Otherwise, it doesn't mention ACL again. I wish it had been earlier in the 40s than 1946, it may have had something about the things we are wondering about. I suspect by 1946, ACL had already been covered in previous editions and it wasn't necessary to repeart it...

But the excerpt above in the link describes the process, in 1939 anyway, in great detail. In its version, it describes the first process I mention in an earlier post, of heating the bottles after each color (and why bottles with more than one color cost more). But it goes on to explan what the "paint" is made up of - and something I missed (or at least had forgotten) from reading it ages ago. The "paint" is actually made from (colored) glass crushed into powder (or something like that), so the two, label and bottle, adhere nicely when heated in the lehr. (And yep, it is called annealing, so I at least remembered something.) It was applied by silk screen, also what I suspect was an expensive procedure.

When my edition of the Blue Book mentions ACL bottles, it tells the reader to inspect the bottles (in another article re: new bottle shipments) for proper annealment. I guess they were supposed to see if the paint was even, etc. Then they were to take random "test bottles" from here and there in the shipment and run them thru the process several times of washing, bottling and capping, to make sure they were of proper size, height, bottle thickness to hold the pressure of carbonation, etc. - for use. (I wonder how many bottlers actually did that?) Then, if the test bottles made it thru ok, then to assume the rest of the shipment was ok too and go for it.

This silk-screened process may be the pain that has become "missing" on some of our bottles. (And note the illustrated bottles for it - front and center is a Seven-Up bottle.)

It's kind of cool to see what "advice" these books gave the bottlers. If you have never seen one of these books, if you ever get the chance to - give it a thumb thru - it's worth it.

Now, to find out when the second, more economic, procedure was invented - and what it did, or didn't do, during the process. I also wonder if the missing red bottles are from the same bottle manufacturer(s), or if some of them all had problems of coming off......regardless of bottle maker.

Perhaps these silk-screened labels (that were basically hand applied) have caused the problems we are seeing - perhaps the person applying it couldn't get the paint the same thickness on each bottle, and so some had thinner labels. Or perhaps the paint powder became contaminated at some point and didn't adhere well - or the lehr wasn't at the proper temperature, which allowed the label not to stick as well to the bottle > and so they came off easily.

Interesting, isn't it?

Another thing I would like to do is have photos from everyone's collection and put them all together on one webpage so they can be more easily seen and compared with each other (along with the info posted with each one). I may do that in the next few days, as more stuff is added, and put up the link.....

K

 

[T D]

thanks Kathy for the link. Super cool!!

 

[morbious_fod]

ORIGINAL: thesodafizz Re: the Rums Dry, I think mine is the older one because I remember it being a duller yellow than your nice, brighter one on the right.

The duller yellow Rums Dry has the Good Housekeeping Seal while the 1943 doesn't have that.

 

[OsiaBoyce]

Wow Terry I don't see how I missed all that. My butts sore now. Callous and blunt that's me. I win lots of friends that way. I don't mean to be an ass I just come across like that. I try to be direct and blunt w/ a whole lot of smart ass thrown in to make my point.You're not the first one I've POed here, anywhere as a matter a fact. I just found out the other day some people don't like me. My bud JB say "Ya know Pat some people don't like you" I was stunned to say the least. For near 49 years I thought I was everybodies friend.I got home and told Paula my bad news. To my horror she confirmed it. "Why?" I ask. She said I was, uh what was it? Oh yea "Brutally honest, to honest for your on good" and "You need to learn to talk w/ people without them feeling as if they've been insulted. Especially when they have a problem." That all? If that's all I really don't care. No one should ask me a question.I thought I might have had bad breath or something worse like being ugly.I just try to make people pay attention and try to get them to listen to what they say. You outta see me when I over react. I just look like a fool. I did Wed nite and it was over something really important like Lemon chicken and french fries.Mistakes, boy have I made them. Been ripped off? More than once. Whose fault was it? Mine most of the time. As far as telling Kathy you're sorry. I think you should have still. If you were in my house you would have. As far as trying to make a fool out of ya I would never do that never. I try my best to respect all and in turn I expect the same. Do I try to inject caustic humor into things poke a little fun at them? Yes I do. Damn Terry you're one of us, love them Bammer boys and our son is transferring to to your hometime. Remember I know where ya live[]. Man if ya was one of my buds I probably would torment you to no end. As far as jealous? Na, envy sometimes jealous never. How many 7Ups I got? Not many 6 or 7 maybe. I collect by state. Being S.C.,N.C. and Ga. I do have an 8 bubble swimmer and an amber paper squat from Chstn.. If I were you I would be proud of my collection. Please post some pics. S. After all of this I would really like to see yours. I said please. From the way it sound you have an impressive collection. I try to promote this hobby without malice and hope you do the same .With my deepest regards I'm sorry if I insulted you or thought I was trying to make you look like a fool.. Pat Hall

 

[acls]

Bama- I went back and read through your list of bottles you have in your collection. It sounds like you have a great collection. I would love to see some pics. I am especially interested in the Alkaline bottle. There is so little known about that rare little bottle. Most were found in the Atlanta area. Did you find yours in Alabama?