New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now?

[digger mcdirt]

Yes I hate a one sided story. But I do think as bad as I hate to admit it the state does hold the Ace in this Case. I think the State could care less about the site but the loud mouth has opened a can of worms. And when it comes down to right vs wrong state will win in this case. I served 15 years as a Police Officer and Investigator and have served 12 years in City Gov. Destruction of state property is serious it is not like private property. Two different things we must keep in mind. State property is public property but not when it comes to destruction two different things. On pvt property you are charged with tresspassing and in some cases destruction. State is much more involved there are laws that most of us do not even know are on the books in cases like this (ALSO SOME FEDERAL LAWS THEY CAN BRING UP). Tennessee has some bad fine print laws on State Property and that includes the river banks. I have seen what they can do 1st hand if they push. Best thing I say is out of sight out of mind let it die down and go away. Time will allow it to be forgotten. We had the same thing happen here years ago and today you can hunt the site if you want to fly low below the Radar but for many years the Police watched it like a Hawk. Back then the more people said the more the pot got stirred and the worse it got. The local bottle club even took out a ad but that just made it worse. I agree the other side needs to be presented but man I would not tell anyone I was the one in there digging. I would not want to be the Fall Guy they need.

 

[Mainepontil]

The point of the letter was not to one up him or see if he can slam me. I was simply writing to bitch about his one sided story. Most of what he wrote was jiberish blah, blah, blahhhh. By no means would I want to talk to him if I were digging there, that would be suicide. I've never seen the site but I do know of a few people that have dug there. They are good people and I know they do not deserve to be labeled as criminals. It's too bad this ignorant reporter chose to write such a one sided story. He must be a newbie.

Joel

 

[zanes_antiques]

The real question is....Can you Desicrate a dump? The land has already been destroyed when they started dumping there. That would be like saying when you tear down a dilapidated house you are destroying it. Are you destroying or actually cleaning it up?

 

[bttlmark]

His letter explains why the story went from the homeless to bottle diggers. From his prior education he knew the digging story would shine brighter and hopefully cause some controversy,he is likely the person who notified the Arch. and he will feed off all comers to be more succesful. It will go away and in a few years it will again be dug.

 

[digger mcdirt]

I totally agree with all. I say they will do an investigation bring in the feds (which they have now done with the EPA) post it and dare someone to come in there for a while. The poor fool who gets caught will be the one to pay the price. I wouldn't be caught near it. I agree with Maine Pontil I don't like the 1 sided slam dunk they did. But the Ace here is state and illegal just makes a bad combo. I agree it will be dug again just let it sit awhile and grow up then under the radar digs will happen. I know some of the guys who live up in that area and they are smart they will do what we did in the 80's let it go for as long as it takes. The state guy was a jerk everyone agrees and we all know what we do and why we do it most are like me not for the money but for the love of history and the thrill of pulling a 100+ year old piece out of the earth. I am proud of our hobby and what we do.

 

[zanes_antiques]

How about they prosecute the entity who dumped there in the first place.

 

[adshepard]

The situation is familiar to most of us that scuba dive for bottles and artifacts. The state and the feds frown on divers taking things from "historical" wrecks. The archaeologists bemoan the retrieval of artifacts on wrecks they'll never visit. They feel any "antiquity" is their property and would let it languish on the bottom forever rather than see the light of day by the hand of a recreational scuba diver. This goes for even the most common objects that they already have recovered time and time again. I've met with Connecticut's State Archaeologist and he has a holier than thou attitude when it comes to "old" stuff.

Best policy is to not advertise what you're doing and where you're doing it. Lay low on this site for a bit too.

Of course even better would be to dig only on land you have permission to dig.

 

[Genno62]

Hey guys bottom line is!!!!!!!!! I say Let us diggers deal with the glass and pottery! The Arceologist deal with the BONES!!!!LOL!~

 

[druggistnut]

I wrote to Eric Baxter of the Manchester Express, requesting that he put my submission in his paper, as a guest writer. The letter is below.
I say that we cannot gripe, complain or bitch unless we offer a possible solution. Don't you get tired of hearing people complain, and then not get involved, or take a stand? Our government officials recognize a well-organized, concerted effort by citizens and respect that voice. We need to address this issue as individuals and as part of a collective.
Bill
_________________________


Mr. Baxter,[/align]I am the president of the Flint, Michigan Antique Bottle/Collectible Club. This club is a long standing affiliate of the Federation of Historical Bottle Collectors. Please read the code of ethics the Federation endorses and stands behind. www.fohbc.com [/align]I have been digging/diving for/collecting, buying and selling bottles for over 30 years. My words are not endorsed or supported in any official manner by the FOHBC or the Flint Antique Bottle/Collectible Club.[/align] [/align]This letter is in reference to the 1800's Manchester dump controversy, currently being investigated and written about by The Manchester Express. The property and digging in dispute bring to light many issues, of which I shall only touch upon a few. If you want to read a large amount of blog/posted entries regarding this issue (by diggers), let me know. Keep in mind, many of us (diggers/collectors) also are degreed professionals. Most of us conduct our digging in an ethical, responsible manner. That does not mean that I feel the folks who have dug there in Manchester for the past 40 years plus are not ethical, nor irresponsible.[/align] [/align]We are, first of all, referring to a VAST pile of TRASH. This is not a small dump behind a historically significant piece of property or building. The contents of said trash heap were put there because no one wanted them. This trash came from homes, businesses and the very government that the outraged state archeologist works for. The items coming from the ground include chunks of metal, glass, bricks, rocks and anything else that wasn't able to decompose over the past 100 years. Many of these items support the homeless when sold for scrap metal or to collectors. These items support one of the largest hobbies in this country (bottle collecting). They are also, more importantly, being exposed to the light of day and the inquisitive minds of the public. [/align] [/align]Please, I implore you, show me evidence of one, just ONE, huge 1880's era city dump, that ANY State allowed large sums of taxpayer money to be squandered on, in an "archeological dig." This is not a colonial American, civil war era or by any stretch of the imagination, remotely financially feasible site for any taxpayer sponsored dig. This is a site that is left alone by the state, as they don't want to expend money removing it.[/align] [/align]I would suggest that the state archeologist truly represent the interests and pocketbook of the vast majority of the state constituents (who could give a rip about the issue) and use his time in a more constructive manner. Many of us in the bottle hobby have devoted countless hours (at no expense to anyone, except ourselves) giving talks on bottle making, placing displays in public libraries and historical societies and making donations of many of our dug items to said historical societies. What we see from many archeologists (I personally know four) that we befriend, is a propensity for a private "hoard" of historical items, in their own homes. These items are not on display, for the taxpaying public to see and learn from. They are being "guarded" by the self-appointed looters (emphasis by this writer) of the public "property."[/align]Where was this man when the freeway overpass was allowed to be constructed over and through this important historical site?[/align] [/align]I say, place an informal poll in your paper and let the people speak. Are they more concerned about the ramifications of the homeless people along the river, the "looting" of the historically questionable trash pile (as proscribed by the archeologist), the untold amounts of carcinogenic waste being "legally" dumped in the river, or the arrogance of one public servant, professing to speak for each of them? Let the voice of the citizens and reason control this debate, as our founding fathers advocated. Our ancestors came here to escape the grasp of an unpeopled government. Don't continue to allow it to occur today.[/align]Respectfully submitted,[/align]William (Bill) Heatley[/align]Otisville, Michigan[/align]

 

[TROG]

Very well said Bill,

And now for this ,

Archaeology is actually as much about destruction as preservation? A site has to be destroyed in order for it to be excavated.