Pontiled Black Glass

[tigue710]

I believe the bluish tint is from heat... it's not from a different color glass on the punty... Some of the early annealing ovens had bricks with little holes the bottles were set on, and the heat came up through the hole... much like burnt black glass looking like a shell... dont get me started though, I've been arguing about that one for years...

 

[Asterx]

ORIGINAL: tigue710

I believe the bluish tint is from heat... it's not from a different color glass on the punty... Some of the early annealing ovens had bricks with little holes the bottles were set on, and the heat came up through the hole... much like burnt black glass looking like a shell... dont get me started though, I've been arguing about that one for years...

Lol, sounds like a touchy subject. A good one though, as its a unique look those ales have on the base. Makes you wonder. Some people call it a refired pontil (due to the characteristic smoothness in the center of the base) but I would see no reason to spend time/money on refiring an area that isn't touched by the consumer. Often though, there is a pricky, rough edge around the smooth center about half way in that makes me question, pontil or no pontil. As you say, the smoothness may come from the extra heating of the bases upon the bricks (neat ideas). Where would this pricky edge come from though? (Sorry sorry, I don't mean to start fires here!) []

 

[tigue710]

I highly doubt and refute as tom foolery the re-fired pontil! I do not think the smoothness is from the heat in the annealing process, just the blue tint. The heat wouldn't be enough to melt the glass, but enough to cause it to burn a bit, like a hotdog on the rollers at the gas station... With the British bottles with a cone like indent on the base, like the ale bottles your talking about, I think the smoothness and roughness are both from the empontiling tool, or possibly the kick up tool made the smooth area while the roughness is just the pontil. It would make sense if they used one tool to do both jobs at the same time, perhaps a cone shape end, witch was rolled in glass shards on the edges? When it was pushed into the base it would form the kick up while the edges would bond and create a pontil... Idk... The blue tint to the glass I believe is from heat, but its also generally believed its caused by certain minerals in the glass. No one has been able to explain why it only happens in the base for the most part if that's the reason...

Maybe I'll take some pictures tmr...

 

[tigue710]

oop's

 

[Asterx]

Thank you Matt, great info....

"like hot dogs on the rollers at the gas station" That made me chuckle...

 

[deepbluedigger]

THhanks for the comments about the website Jordan. It really needs an overhaul (hasn't been touched for about 4 years) but there are too many things to do with higher priority these days. The pontils page in particular is in line for a complete overhaul.

I don't have any cylinders with the Candlish mark, as I don't collect that type of bottle. All I've got is the base of a solid pontil medicine or utility, where the mark is completely underneath the glass of the pontil, and only visible from the inside! I'll try to get photos. I've got family who live in that part of the world, and there's a river site there where bottles turn up from time to time, including the base I've kept, and black cylinder bases. I've been told about the Candlish connection by Newcastle / Durham area collectors. I'll chase it up to get more detail from them. I agree (especially after seeing the photos of the Willington base) that it could be Candlish's chosen pattern of base vents, rather than a conventional makers mark.

Re looking more American than British: with the second of the two bottles, definitely. That degree of slope is much more US than British. The first bottle though is very similar to types that turn up here.

 

[tigue710]

ORIGINAL: deepbluedigger

THhanks for the comments about the website Jordan. It really needs an overhaul (hasn't been touched for about 4 years) but there are too many things to do with higher priority these days. The pontils page in particular is in line for a complete overhaul.

I don't have any cylinders with the Candlish mark, as I don't collect that type of bottle. All I've got is the base of a solid pontil medicine or utility, where the mark is completely underneath the glass of the pontil, and only visible from the inside! I'll try to get photos. I've got family who live in that part of the world, and there's a river site there where bottles turn up from time to time, including the base I've kept, and black cylinder bases. I've been told about the Candlish connection by Newcastle / Durham area collectors. I'll chase it up to get more detail from them. I agree (especially after seeing the photos of the Willington base) that it could be Candlish's chosen pattern of base vents, rather than a conventional makers mark.

Re looking more American than British: with the second of the two bottles, definitely. That degree of slope is much more US than British. The first bottle though is very similar to types that turn up here.

Jerry I'd have to agree that the second cylinder does not look like the typical British cylinders, the base is quite different also. I see the American feel in it... Because of the mass importation of black glass here from Britain most of it is chalked of as British with very little to define what could possibly be made here excepting for unique shapes that are absolutely American.

The first cylinder is a very typical for New England glass, although the shape did originate with Rickett's patent. I'd really like to discuss this further, is there anyone over there you know who collects cylinders who you could put me in touch with?

Here is a picture of three Stoddard New Hampshire cylinders, borrowed respectfully from Jeff and Holly Nordsey...

 

[tigue710]

here is a nice American cylinder I believe to be New England, but could be mid Atlantic, New York, Pennsylvania also. It has an Iron Pontil

I dug this last week

 

[Asterx]

Beautiful cylinders and pictures, thanks for sharing. And nice dig Matt, iron pontiled too, congrats!

Because of the mass importation of black glass here from Britain most of it is chalked of as British with very little to define what could possibly be made here excepting for unique shapes that are absolutely American.

And I was thinking it had a british look to it. The base is different, I see that. Its not a cone shape kick up like most I see but has a more uniform deep cup type base almost... Is this what you both see as more likely American or is it the lip too?

 

[Asterx]

with the second of the two bottles, definitely. That degree of slope is much more US than British

Jerry is the "slope" in reference to the base or lip on the second bottle?