VALUES ... guides vs e-bay vs dealers vs ?

[bottlingco]

One of the biggest misunderstandings of ACL collectors is that the colored picture books published with prices by the Soda Net or Soda Fizz is a "price guide." The prices included in these books are "prices realized." That means they are prices that were paid by people at a bottle show, auction, Ebay, etc.
It does not necesarily indicate value.
2 good examples: The Birdie bottle shows a price of $1,000. This price occurred from a call in auction where people called in and placed bids, including proxy bids, back and forth until there was only one person willing to continue to bid. This ran the price up really high and is quite inflated. (Who can blame them, it's a beautiful bottle.) However, it is a false assumption that a Birdie bottle is always going to be "worth" $1,000.
Example 2, The r/w/l version of the Cola Root Beer bottle shows a price of $50. I think this was a private sale or a sale at a bottle show. At any rate, this was a great bargain. One should expect to pay considerably more for that bottle. It would be a false assumption that a Cola Root Beer bottle should only be $50.
These guides are still extremely useful once their intention is understood. They are to show the pictures so we will know what the bottle looks like, and also give us an idea what someone at a particular time was willing to pay.
Thanks for continuing to discuss and post interesting and informative threads on this forum.
bottlingco

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Here's a real case scenario (sort of) involving a trade that could happen to any of us.

1. I have a Big Chief acl that you want like the one discussed, and I claim it's worth $75.00

2. You have a Donald Duck acl that I want like the one below, and you claim it's worth $75.00

3. So far it sounds like an even trade. Right?

Not exactly ...

4. Because I am "certain" that your Donald Duck acl is only worth $25.00 despite what you claim.

So under these circumstances how would ever come to terms on a legitimate trade? And what resource do we turn to that would settle the dispute once and for all? An accurate price guide would be one place. Of course we would have to agree that the price guide was accurate which, according to popular opinion, doesn't exist yet.

I realize this may seem a little silly, but multiply this by ten or twenty bottles and perhaps you will see my point. So I guess we are left with the original dilemma of how to accurately put a value on any given bottle on any given day. I for one do not know exactly how to do that. Selling a bottle outright is one thing, but it appears when it comes to trades it is a horse of an entirely different color. I for one vote in favor in a bonifide price guide, and hope the day comes soon when we at last have one.

SPBOB

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

bottlingco ~

I was posting at exactly the same time. Thanks for your observations. Very intelligent and to the point. And I agree with how that particular price guide is set up and meant to be used. I have two copies that I refer to on a regular basis. But for some time now I too have questioned some of the listed prices that "suggest" value.

Thanks again,

SPBOB

 

[bottlingco]

When I trade, I just make sure both parties are happy. I don't worry about who is getting a $5 or such upper hand. While I'm not going to trade a Grapette bottle for a Big Chief, if I want a bottle, and the other party wants mine, I'm happy. That philosophy is just my opinion, but it seems to work well. I still like to trade after doing it many times.
In the Big Chief bottle world, there are 3 that have the design similar to yours with a red/yellow label.
While the values are based on what others would pay, I will list them with the rarest first, and the least rare, last.
1)Placerville,CA very rare
2)Taft,CA (says Taft on the front label) rare, but more difficult to find than the Ely
3)Ely,NV still a rare bottle.

These opinions are based on the scale as follows:
Extremely rare, Very rare, rare, common, very common with extremely rare being the most difficult to find.
bottlingco

 

[TJSJHART]

OK,,,I'll put my 2 cents in . when i am bidding on a bottle on line i check a couple sites . to get a rough estimate ..then figure what I'm willing to pay , bid or make an offer if i win or they want what i offer it's done . in a store,(flea market, junk store or mall ) i make an offer or have the attendant call the seller about my offer. recently I've found very dirty NDNR'S that are marked at 1 to 2 dollars a piece , i believe they are very under valued , the prices will go up i believe . in a nut shell it's what you are willing to sell them for and what they, the seller, whats for them or what they payed for them. TIM

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

bottlingco ~

Thank you for the third time. Or is it four? You have been a big help here. Especially with the last part that really put a cap on things. (Pun intended). The rairity factor is where it's at. The $5.00 to $20.00 bottles are easy to price. Everyone knows the ones I'm talking about. But it's those other boogers in the $100.00 plus category that get tricky.

Anyhoo, I learned one thing today. And that's that I have very little experience with selling and trading. And that I am a self made victum of my own folly. Which means that I keep finding - digging - buying bottle after bottle after bottle, and it comes down to the fact that I really don't know what the heck I've got. Or what they are worth. I just collect them and leave the rest up to others. So the next time I say I got a $100.00 bottle, you will know I really mean a $75.00. If you remember that we will get along just fine.

Your fellow bottle collecting friend - who's got the bug and can't stop - no matter what - Bob [8|]

TJSJHART ~

I Just read your post and want to express a quick thank you. The edit button has been triggered and

 

[simpleman]

Hello ALL ~ ~
.
SODAPOPBOB ~ ~
First - Youre welcome on the idea to start this thread, concerning price guides/catalogs.
I believe everyone is basically saying the same thing, but just going about saying it in slightly different ways.
.
A price guide, is just that... a guide. The value/price given in a guide/catalog is the top $$$ that you can expect, in a best case scenario(the right buyer, at the right time, willing to spend that amount). EX.- Your Big Chief may sell for top dollar to the right buyer...and may even sell for more if you have more than one anxious buyer. Then on the other hand, it may difficult to sell at all, if its not the right buyer/right time. - - - The true value of anything is what someone is willing to pay for it at the time. What the value is to one person may be a world apart from the next person. A price guide/catalog will give you an idea of what price to start at, as a buyer & as a seller.
.
We have all probably seen it before. You go to the flea market/antique store and find 2 sellers with the same bottle, same condition. One is asking a fair price and the other is going to retire wealthy.
.
With all that said. The bottom line to me is - The true value of anything is what someone is willing to pay for it at the time.
.
.
*** Still like to know whats the best ACL guide/catalog/book out there, thats available, and where to get it?
The reason I even asked about catalogs/books/price guides, is that I havent ever seen one...at all. I figured the book stores or surely the library would have something. NOTHIN. All I really want is a ACL bottle guide with some general info. Heck, I might be walkin right past something that is considered very rare/valueable, & buying something else because I like it more.
.
Take care all

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

simpleman ~

I'm glad to see this discussion hasn't disuaded you from seeking out a good guide. And please note that I did not say "price" guide, as the popular consensus here seems to be that guides are best used for determining the multitue of varieties out there as opposed to their actual values, which is fleeting at best. And if I may be so bold as to glean from what I personally have learned from all of this and draw a conclusion, it would be that "regional" interest is a major factor here, especially when it comes to values. As we have seen, certain bottles, say, from West Virginia, would obviously be more in demand and more valuable to W.V. collectors than they would be to a collector like myself who lives in southern California. Take for example my 1936 Perfect Host acl from Yuma, Arizona. It's the only one of it's kind I have ever seen, and have to conclude it's somewhat rare, and possibly worth more than even I am aware of. And yet, this same bottle is likely to be of very little interest to a W.V. collector who wouldn't pay $5.00 for it if it bit him in the nose. And so it goes. Of course, certain bottles are popular everywhere. After all, who wouldn't love to have a Big Hit acl or a Birdie? (To mention just a couple).

Putting everything in a nut shell, it appears that the acl book most often recommended and referred to ( The one shown on your thread) is about as good as it gets, except that because of the internet and other resources, the 2002 Edition is obsolete now (at least as far as prices are concerned) and that it is best used to see what's out there more than anything else. Perhaps someday a guide will emerge to will knock all of our socks off. But until then I still recommend the one mentioned ... "if" you can find one. And regarding that, I am of no help, except to suggest watching e-bay and elsewhere in the hope one turns up. And if you or anyone else happens to order one from the publishers and actually receive it, please let the rest of us hear about it.

Thanks again,

SPBOB

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

But ...

"What if" in time it was determined that my Perfect Host acl was even more rare than the acclaimed Big Hit acl with the baseball player on the label. Would this automatically boost the demand and/or value of the Perfect Host? I say "possibly." And what is it about the Big Hit that makes it so valuable? Is it just it's rarity? Or is it because it has a baseball player on the label? I say "both." But "what if" there were as many of the Big Hit's as there are of the everyday Pepsi Cola double-dot bottles? Would the Big Hit still be so valuable? I say "no." So exactly what is the main factor in determining a bottle's value? I say "rarity first," followed by "demand." It seems to go that what we can't have is what we want the most! (Appx three years ago I was told by a very advanced collector that at that time there were only three known examples of the Big Hit bottle known to exist. I wonder how many Perfect Host there are?)

SPBOB

 

[#1twin]

Bob, Years ago I was looking at the RECENT FINDS listed with the South Eastern bottle club, and the Mountain Due party bottle you mentioned sold for over 3k. Didn't know if you ever saw that or not? Wouldn't it be great if that were the standard price. Finding a reliable price for soda's can be as hard as pricing a local med[8D] I am not really into selling, but I always try to find a price for all my bottles, in the event of my passing my two girls won't box them up and sell them for $10 a box. I guess all we can do, when selling, is put a price on it and hope for the best, like Morbious said. Good luck on your journey of clearing out. Marvin