Vernors Ginger Ale 150th B-Day

[hemihampton]

I like those 2 Seltzers & paper label bottles. What date would those 2 paper label bottles be?. Also, most of the Seltzers I have & Seen are usually made in Czeckaslovokia (did i spell that right?) LEON.

 

[hemihampton]

I have a question. If Faygo made a Hutch bottle why didn't Vernors? LEON.

 

[iggyworf]

Yes those PL bottles are excellent. I have also wondered about a Vernors hutch.

 

[VernorsGuy]

The paper labels are around 1910. Post #196 pegged them with a trademark at 1911. But, seems like Mr. Vernor was always late getting his trademarks.

 

[SODABOB]

Keith

Quick question ...

Is your Vernor's Austrian seltzer bottle Hand-blown or Machine-made?

Note: Check the mold seams on either side and see if they stop near the shoulder or go to the top of the lip.

 

[SODABOB]

Leon & iggy/Rich

Good question about why there are no Vernor's Hutchinson bottles. The Hutchinson bottle was patented in 1879 and was still being produced by some glass makers into the 1920s. The Crown closure was patented by William Painter in 1892, but the earliest confirmed examples are dated 1894-95. You'd think James Vernor would have started with a Hutchinson if he was bottling his (carbonated) ginger ale prior to about 1895. You also gotta wonder why it appears he waited until about 1902 to start bottling his (carbonated) ginger ale?

 

[SODABOB]

Food for thought ...

Hires Root Beer was introduced in 1876 and only available as an extract at soda fountains and in small extract bottles for home use until about 1897 when it was first bottled in a carbonated version. There are no Hires Hutchinson bottles that I'm aware of, and as near as I can determine, Hires was the very first "major/national" brand to bottle its beverage in a Crown finish bottle. I wonder if the manufacturing and bottling of Hires Root Beer had any influence on James Vernor?

 

[SODABOB]

P.S.

If it turns out that Vernor's Ginger Ale was not introduced until "about 1880" (as the trademark document indicates), then the 1876 introduction of Hires Root Beer would make Hires "America's oldest, continuously produced soda pop." Hmmm, I wonder!

 

[SODABOB]

Now that I stop and think about it, this entire mystery might be solved (or at least part of the mystery) if someone can "accurately" date what they believe is the "earliest/first" Vernor's Ginger Ale extract bottle. Surely there's some expert out there who knows how to accurately date early medicinal-type bottles and can figure out how to date an early Vernor's extract bottle within about five years or so. ???

The only thing I can think of at the moment is that a mid to late 1800s medicinal type bottle would be hand-blown and not machine made. Machine made bottles would typically date to about 1910 or later. The type of "finish" or "closure" on a mid to late 1800s medicinal type bottle should also help to date them.

 

[VernorsGuy]

Here are some answers and thoughts:
1. I'll check the seam on the extract bottles and let you know.
2. I believe Vernor's started bottling carbonated pop in 1896. This is the year they sold the pharmacy and moved. If you were going to concentrate on ginger ale, it makes sense you'd be bottling it and not just running a soda fountain and shipping out extract.
3. The Vernor's extract bottles look exactly like the largest Vernor druggist bottle. I'm not a bottle expert. Maybe an expert could tell the difference.
4. One of my paper label extracts still has some extract in it and is corked. But, not sure if that's the original closure.
5. In over 35 years of collecting Vernor's, I've only found a handful of druggist bottles. Seems like there should be thousands of them. But, even with eBay and the internet, they don't pop up. My point: there could be a Hutch. There could be some earlier extracts. He could have used plain bottles with no embossing and the paper labels have long since vanished. I know of a ton of Vernor's items that I don't have in my collection. But, usually when I find something new, it's a brand new find. I didn't even know I didn't have it. Even though I have a large Vernor's collection, I'm not ready to say I have a complete history of early bottles. I know of one other seltzer - totally different from the two I've shown. I'm sure there must be others. All I'm saying is, as we try to piece together the early history of Vernor's we are only putting the pieces together that we have. There are undoubtably missing pieces of the puzzle. And, some of those missing pieces could change the entire story.
6. Hires. I love Hires. It's my favorite root beer. But, where do you buy it? Nowhere. I've heard there might be a place in Mississippi where you can get it. It's still listed on the Dr Pepper web site. But if Hires still is a brand, which is questionable, it's distribution is non-existent. Not sure it qualifies as "continuously produced".