Vernors Ginger Ale 150th B-Day

[VernorsGuy]

I have good news, bad news and interesting news!

Good news: yesterday I was able to personally look through the entire James Vernor recipe book. There's a photo attached of me wearing gloves taking a look at some incredible history.

Bad news: there was no formula for ginger ale extract. There were several recipes for making ginger ale using the extract. But, nothing more detailed than what we've already seen printed on the label of extract bottles. So, I don't think this was his absolute original recipe book. However.....

Interesting news: Wow! What an amazing recipe book. It spanned a time period from the drug store days to beyond. There were formulas for perfumes, palmade (hand cream), laxatives, toothpaste, hair dye and many more drug store type items. The handwriting inside is elegant. Just beautiful. But, not dated! Every original entry - and there are a couple hundred of them - is beautifully written but not dated. Subsequent entries, changing a formula for example, are dated. The earliest "change" date was 1895. However, the handwriting looked different so I assume it was James Vernor II. I was surprised they were still tweaking formulas for pineapple syrup, strawberry syrup, and others after they closed the drug store. It made me think the Vernor's Soda Fountain didn't just serve Vernor's in the later years. In looking at the evidence, they must have been a full-service soda fountain - at least when they first opened it at 33 Woodward.

I took some photos of the recipe book with a good camera, but have not uploaded them to my computer yet. I'll post them when I do.

I also went to the Detroit Public Library and looked through the Vernor's artifacts files. Unfortunately, the soda water publication I had posted here earlier wasn't in the things I looked through yesterday. I was hoping to find a date.

Bottom line: I had a great time and felt a sense of awe that I was touching (well, with gloves on) something that James Vernor I and II wrote in and worked from for many years. The pages were stained with the items they were making. It was a wonderful journey back in time. But, the answers I was looking for are still questions. I learned some things, but not the things I went to learn.

 

[iggyworf]

That is awesome Kieth. Hope too see the pics soon.

 

[hemihampton]

I would guess the original recipe for the extract was a highly guarded secret. Just like Colonel Sander's Kentucky Fried Chicken, ect, ect, ect. Locked away in Vernor's personal home Vault or Fort Knox LOL. LEON.

 

[SODABOB]

Keith

I have been gone for a few days and enjoyed reading your post when I got home this morning. Because I haven't had time to digest it yet, I will comment on it later. In the meantime, I thought the following might interest you and be something to look for to add to your Vernor's collection. It also involves my attempt to date the attached photo, with certain indicators suggesting it was taken in 1877 at the earliest.

Notice the sign in the window for "Centaur Liniments"



And compare the sign to this one ...



I have just begun researching the brand, and all I can tell you about it at the moment is found on this link where the author says the brand "arrived on the scene in 1871"

http://thequackdoctor.com/index.php/centaur-liniment/

 

[SODABOB]

Just for the record ...

 

[SODABOB]

P.S.

I wonder if James Vernor was so proud of his new windows that the picture of him standing outside was taken shortly after the work was completed in June or July of 1877?

(The June 16, 1877 snippet uses the words "putting in" which suggest the work was either in progress or to be done sometime soon)

 

[SODABOB]

This snippet is from the Detroit Free Press and dated June 17, 1927 and is a "This Day in History" column. Or as they call it, "Turning Back the Pages"

However, I'm thinking June 17th is a typo and they meant June 16th. I looked in the June 17, 1877 newspaper and could not find any mention of the new windows. But it does appear in the June 16, 1877 edition, which I just posted ...

 

[SODABOB]

I have good news, bad news and interesting news!

Good news: yesterday I was able to personally look through the entire James Vernor recipe book. There's a photo attached of me wearing gloves taking a look at some incredible history.

Bad news: there was no formula for ginger ale extract. There were several recipes for making ginger ale using the extract. But, nothing more detailed than what we've already seen printed on the label of extract bottles. So, I don't think this was his absolute original recipe book. However.....

Interesting news: Wow! What an amazing recipe book. It spanned a time period from the drug store days to beyond. There were formulas for perfumes, palmade (hand cream), laxatives, toothpaste, hair dye and many more drug store type items. The handwriting inside is elegant. Just beautiful. But, not dated! Every original entry - and there are a couple hundred of them - is beautifully written but not dated. Subsequent entries, changing a formula for example, are dated. The earliest "change" date was 1895. However, the handwriting looked different so I assume it was James Vernor II. I was surprised they were still tweaking formulas for pineapple syrup, strawberry syrup, and others after they closed the drug store. It made me think the Vernor's Soda Fountain didn't just serve Vernor's in the later years. In looking at the evidence, they must have been a full-service soda fountain - at least when they first opened it at 33 Woodward.

I took some photos of the recipe book with a good camera, but have not uploaded them to my computer yet. I'll post them when I do.

I also went to the Detroit Public Library and looked through the Vernor's artifacts files. Unfortunately, the soda water publication I had posted here earlier wasn't in the things I looked through yesterday. I was hoping to find a date.

Bottom line: I had a great time and felt a sense of awe that I was touching (well, with gloves on) something that James Vernor I and II wrote in and worked from for many years. The pages were stained with the items they were making. It was a wonderful journey back in time. But, the answers I was looking for are still questions. I learned some things, but not the things I went to learn.

Keith

I'm trying my best to find a time-period reference for Vernor's Ginger Ale earlier than 1884, but the only thing earlier than 1884 is the "About January 1st 1880" that's on the 1911 Trademark document. As you know, I do not consider histories written in the early 1900s and later as being totally credible. However, I do consider time-period references from the 1800s to be 100% credible. The following is a timeline of sorts that illustrates various aspects of Vernor's Ginger Ale advertising starting in 1884 (Which is still the earliest reference I can find).

1884 ~ Detroit, Michigan



1885 ~ Alpena, Michigan



1885 ~ Detroit, Michigan ~ Hull Brothers



1887 ~ Detroit, Michigan ~ James E. Davis & Co.



1893 ~ Detroit, Michigan ~ Immel-Kirchberg Co., Ltd.



1894 ~ Detroit, Michigan ~ McWilliams & Moore



1894 ~ Detroit, Michigan ~ "Your grocer keeps the extract"

Note: There are numerous ads identical to this one, all of which are from 1894



1895 ~ Detroit, Michigan ~ Hurdy & Gray




Questions:

1. Why is 1884 the earliest time-period ad I can find for Vernor's Ginger Ale?

2. If James Vernor produced and sold ginger ale prior to 1884, then why can't I find any time-period references earlier than 1884?

3. If James Vernor had a soda fountain at 235 Woodward Avenue and was serving ginger ale, then why can't I find any pre-1884 time-period references to support it?

4. Why were other stores serving and/or selling Vernor's Ginger Ale extract between 1884 and 1895, and even advertising it, but apparently not James Vernor himself? (Other than the identical 1894 ads that only appeared in 1894 and not in 1895 or later)

Footnote:

Starting in 1896, things really took off for Vernor's Ginger Ale and the time-period advertising fully supports it!

 

[SODABOB]

In other words ...

If Vernor's Ginger Ale was produced and served during a 17 year time period between 1866 and 1883, then (in my opinion) it shouldn't involve mere guessing to prove it! If its true, then there should be proof somewhere! But where?

 

[SODABOB]

P.S.

I really hate to say this, but I'm not entirely convinced the sale of 1,500 glasses of ginger ale actually took place at James Vernor's drug store. That seems like a lot of individual servings to take place at one small drug store in a single day. I'm kind of wondering if it might have occurred at a fair or some other type of outdoor event?

June 28, 1884



24 Hours = 1,440 Minutes
12 Hours = 720 Minutes
8 Hours = 480 Minutes

1,500 servings equates to ...

24 Hours = About one serving every minute during the entire 24 hours.
12 Hours = About two servings every minute during the entire 12 hours.
8 Hours = About three servings every minute during the entire 8 hours.